What if Lusitania had not sunk

[Grant Carman]

>>The WWII troopship idea was sort of based on the Aquitania, but the truth was she just got lucky. Around the Time that the Aquitania was due to be scrapped, WWII had started, and the need for troopships increased.<<

Aquitania survived because her replacement, the Queen Elizabeth, was not completed when war broke out, so they quickly converted the Aquitania, along with the Queen Mary to troopships. The Queen Elizabeth was completed as a troopship, and wasn't formally launched as a passenger liner until after the war.
By the late 1930's, Cunard only needed 2 large liners on the North Atlantic run. Until 1938, they had 3, Queen Mary, Berengaria and Aquitania. Berengaria was the first to go, with Aquitania scheduled next.
Even though the Aquitania is my favorite ship, by the late '30's, she was out of date, rusting out, and generally at the end of her life. The fact that she survived until 1950 is somewhat of a miracle, as when she was retired, she was found to be structuerally unsafe. Berengaria on the other hand was in great physical shape, but needed a complete re-wiring, which wasn't worth it.

At least that's what I understand. Now I'll step back and let people correct me.

 

[Eric Longo]

"...were not as old or junky as Mauretania..."

On July 20th, 1933, while that "old junk" was completing the 110 miles stretch between Carysfort Reef and Juniper Lighthouse she averaged 32 knots an hour with a touch of help from the Gulf Stream. The British Board of Trade found her to be in decent shape as well.

Best,
Eric Longo

 

[Brent Holt]

I don't recall reading of any major structural issues with the Mauretania at the end of he career. She was a sound and well built ship. Her retirement was based on economic reasons and the takeover of White Star made her redundant.
I do think if the Lucy had survived the war the U.S. may have kept Imperator and run her with the Leviathan.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>I don't recall reading of any major structural issues with the Mauretania at the end of he career.<<

Nor do I and the Board of Trade tended to keep a close eye on this sort of thing. The Olympic was in quite sound condition as well, having benefited from very good upkeep. The problem with a lot of these ships wasn't so much that they were junky as they were simply outmoded in terms of style and accomadation. Simply put, the public wanted something else.

The German built ships suffered from quite a few problems, not the least of which was topweight which...in the Imperator at least...was never ever made quite right. The electrical problems tended to be annoying as well, especially in it's tendency to catch fire. (That never goes down to well with us sailors either!)

 

[Brent Holt]

Hindsight is a wonderful gift, of course, but it would have made more sense for Cunard to have kept Olympic over Berengaria because of the wiring issues. (Perhaps Majestic would have lasted longer than the Berengaria as well.)
An express service by QM, Aquitania, & Olympic. That wold have been cool......

Brent

 

[Grant Carman]

I watched an old movie the other night, called "Dodsworth", from 1936. They had some great exterior shots of the Queen Mary in New York, and of course the interior shots would have all been on a sound stage. What's amazing, is that there's one shot of the QM that makes her look remarkably like the QM2.
At the end of the movie, they had exterior shots of the Rex taken at Naples.

As for the transatlantic service, I think that given Cunards takeover of White Star, I doubt if they would have kept any of the big White Star liners. Back then, Cunard was of the opinion that ANYTHING not Cunard was second rate.

Postscript: At one point in the movie it showed travel labels being applied to the trunk, and it clearly said "Cunard - White Star".

 

[Lucy Burkhill]

>>I don't recall reading of any major structural issues with the Mauretania at the end of he career.<<

At the time of her scrapping, the shipbreakers were amazed at the sound condition of her hull and her machinery, considering all those miles she had put in over the years, not to mention the Atlantic storms she had battled with!

Regards,

Lucy

 

[Michael H. Standart]

The shipbreakers were equally amazed with the Olympic in that regard. The ships of that age were very well built...some might argue overengineered...and held up quite well when given reasonably diligent care. Given how much pride that the builders took in their work, right down to the blue collar rank and file types, this isn't really much of a surprise.

 

[Gabriel Gerard Scotto]

>> On July 20th, 1933, while that "old junk" was completing the 110 miles stretch between Carysfort Reef and Juniper Lighthouse she averaged 32 knots an hour with a touch of help from the Gulf Stream. The British Board of Trade found her to be in decent shape as well. <<

Sorry! My mistake! I just have heard of Berengaria catching on fire regularly and seen pictures of a rusted Mauretania, and I sort of just guessed. I mean, what nearly 30 year old ship WOULD'NT be having some midlife crisis? And as for Mauretania, well, thats why they painted the hulls of these ships black!

 

[Eric Longo]

Hi Gabriel,

Actually, her hull was painted white (with red not green boot-topping) from May/June 1932 onward - she was known as "the white Queen" among other less savory names muttered by her crew.

What Michael and Lucy said was true - her main condenser tubing and other machinery was reported, in a letter during her demolition from Metal Industries, to be in excellent condition and with copper bends of extremely high quality that spoke to her construction - albeit under Admiralty specs. She did over 2,000,000 miles in her career - and those heavy seas Lucy mentioned were no joke - her oft overlooked November '07 maiden westbound voyage was just such a hellish voyage.

Best,
Eric

 

[Brent Holt]

"Actually, her hull was painted white (with red not green boot-topping) from May/June 1932 onward - "

The date Mauretania was painted white needs further research. Some sources say 1931, 1932, or 1933. I have seen more for 1933, so I tend to lean towards that figure.

Brent

 

[Eric Longo]

Hi Brent,

"Some sources say 1931, 1932, or 1933."

Some quote more than one!

My typo - she was indeed painted white in May/June 1933 for her return to service which I have confirmed in my research. This was done at Berth 108 of the "New Docks" - the Western Docks which she had opened the previous October.

Best,
Eric

 

[Jonathan Granato]

This is a little OT, but would the QM2 fare well if she hit the same iceberg that killed Titanic? Would any of the superliners have survived? I don't know the answer to this, but I have been wondering about it for awhile. Cameron's "Titanic" was on TNT this w/end and I watched the collision scene a couple of times. Very well done.

 

[Brent Holt]

Assuming the same circumstances, the QM2 would likely be on the bottom of the ocean relatively quickly if she struck and iceberg like Titanic did. Many modern vessels are not built to the watertight compartment standards as Olympic & Titanic.
Based on the latest research, the collision in TIANIC was not well done at all. It showed the engines being reversed when this was likely not done and even if it was it would have taken too long to implement before the ship hit the berg. The Titanic also turned in the wrong way, more like a car than a ship.

Brent

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>but would the QM2 fare well if she hit the same iceberg that killed Titanic? <<<

I'm inclined to be very skeptical of that. An Olympic class liner was designed to remain afloat with up to four of her watertight sections flooded. The standard these days is for two compartment protection. My understanding is that under the law, this is considered to be a minimum standard, but in practice, it's treated as a maximum. I haven't seen any of the detailed specifications for the QM2, but I suspect that like most modern passenger vessels, if she had three or more sections open to the sea, she would soon be on the bottom.

For all that White Star is often accused of meeting minimum standards, the reality is that they often went the extra mile on this.

>>The Titanic also turned in the wrong way, more like a car than a ship. <<

Mmmmmmmm...if the Titanic had handled like a car, we wouldn't be having this conversation. She would have easily missed the berg.