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Message: [QUOTE="Stephen Walker, post: 85739, member: 138870"] >>As you know, the problem with this subject is that there are those among us who have high-jacked the sea bed attitude of the bow to prove the relationship between Titanic and Californian<< My apologies to both Jim and Michael here; you're right, the Californian incident is off-topic--I'll cease bringing it up on this thread! Whether the bow section planed forward and/or spiraled, whatever happened at the break-up and on its way to the bottom must have been relatively gentle to account for the small light items inside like the carafe & water glasses on a shelf which were undisturbed. For objects like these to have remained in place, the bow seems not to have adopted any extreme angles at all. [/QUOTE]