What we know about the Californian

[Adam McGuirk]

I know I have said this in a movie post about ANTR but i thought it would be more appropriate to debate it here. This is what we know about Californian, no research no matter how deep can change these three facts.
1) Officers Gibson and Stone saw rockets from another vessel
2) Captain Lord was told of these atleast three times
3) Lord did not wake his radio operator.
We knew about this in 1912. Now, I do not really fault Lord at all except for the fact that he did not wake his radio operator up. The real blame rests upon Captain Smith. I'm not gonna sit here and debate the closeness that the two vessels were or how many lives could have been saved because that cannot be proven but come on I have just presented what I thought were undebatable facts but people still find a way to debate them.

 

[John M. Feeney]

Adam: Agreed, largely. (And sorry I missed that squall on the movie thread at first.)

As some Chesapeake Bay folk would say, "M R Fax!" ('them are facts!') -- and indisputable ones, at that. Add in the easily confirmable lies to the Boston press, and you have one heck of a muck up.

Certainly the legal blame for Titanic's sinking rests squarely on Captain Smith's shoulders. Ryan v. Oceanic Steam Navigation Company (et al.) -- the later civil court cases pursued -- firmly reversed the Mersey Commission's more academic conclusions, and found culpable negligence there. (That determination was upheld on appeal, as well.)

But once the disaster was inevitable, a whole 'nother chain of circumstances was at hand, which Lord could and should have addressed decisively. The "ball" was most definitely in HIS "court" then, and he dropped it.

If I find fault with him -- I do -- it's because he did not personally come up and assess the situation or make any overt "command decision" for the safety of his own ship. (And because of the subsequent cover-up.) Had he assessed the situation himself, and decided to make a prompt effort to assist, Lord Mersey's conclusion, if taken *literally*, is quite correct -- "he might have saved many if not all...". (As you say, HOW many is irrelevant, and always was.)

Had he decided it was simply too dangerous -- and said so -- he would also have been within his rights. But rather than take either logical course, he simply manufactured a comfortable alternate reality after the fact. (Not commendable at all.)

My own impression, contrary to your ending sentence, is that people do *not* earnestly debate those facts at all -- that's actually the problem! Rather, they sidestep those critical points with irrelevancies, or lamely attempt to simply dismiss the evidence, or employ any number of other ruses -- anything to *avoid* having to confront those insurmountable issues.

But facts are facts! And agreed -- the ones you posted, plus the cover-up, are not debatable. (You're certainly not alone in that observation.)

Cheers,
John

 

[Adam McGuirk]

I know that I'm not alone but there were still one or two that didn't believe what I was saying. Maybe now that they read this they will.Thanks a whole lot John.
Adam

 

[Gregory German]

Could the californian be turned away so they could see the signals sent by titanic

Greg

 

[Beverly J. Crowder]

Some very good reading that I believe answers some of your questions may be found at:

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Carpathia/

Hope this helps.

TTFN,

Beverly

 

[Harland Duzen]

I think we need to retifry from where the SS Californian departed on April 5th. Lord in the inquiry stated they departed from London while after departing Boston on the 25th, she returned to Liverpool.

We can agree where she was heading (Boston and Albany Docks, East Boston) but we can't agree where she came from.

 

[Ajmal Dar]

It was a combination of items that sunk the Titanic thus:

1. There was no moon to iluminate the iceberg.
2. The iceberg was a "black berg".
3. The sea was a flat calm so no foam was frothing around the base of the iceberg.
4. The Titanic was made aware (by ice reports) that it wax steaming into a region where there was pack ice and ice bergs but it kept a fast sped of about 21.5vto 22 knots.
6. Phillips did not send the all important Mesaba ice report to the bridge.
7. Phillips cut off the ice message from the Californian by telling Cyril Ecans to "keep out....." so Evans was unable to give the Californians position and thereby, the position of ice.

Regards

Ajmal

 

[Mark Baber]

Hello, all---

There are a number of other threads where these subjects involving Californian are being addressed. You should continue this discussion there, if necessary, rather than resurrect this very old discussion.