What Went Through Lord's Mind


Logan Geen

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Dec 2, 2001
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What do you think Lord first thought when he first learned that the Titanic had sunk-and how close the Californian had been? A source-can't remember which one-quoted him as saying "You must get me a better position, we don't want to go on a wild goose chase" or something to that effect. I can imagine shock and disbelief running through his mind, and perhaps anger at both himself and his officers. What do you think came to him first?
 
S

Stephanie Jurs

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I think that's something nobody will ever know. All we really know (or what I know, more accurately), is that Lord seemed to be semi-ignorant of the real and true events during the disaster. I bet it wasn't until after the Carpathia arrived, and/or saw the lifeboats, that he truly realised what had taken place.
 
Dec 2, 2000
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Whatever may be said of Lord's state of mind on this, I think that you may be absolutely certain that he knew of the Titanic's fate long befor the Californian pulled up alongside the Carpathia. They recieved the news via wireless and the first thing he did was go for the position that Boxhall came to. Recall the way the news was broken to him; "There is a ship sunk."

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
 

Don Tweed

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Walter Lord stated that very little is known about the conversation that took place between Cptn. Lord and Second Officer Stone between 4:30 and 5:20 the morning of the 15th. Oh! to be a fly on the wall at that time!

Getting stories straight no doubt.

Just wondering! - Don
 

Tracy Smith

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For one thing, Stone had gone off duty at 4 am. Chief Officer Stewart was on during the time between 430 and 520 the next morning. So Captain Lord and Second Officer Stone didn't have any sort of conversation at all during that time period.

Neither man knew that a ship had sunk until Evans heard it over the wireless, so there were no "stories to get straight".
 

Don Tweed

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Sorry Tracy, Stone was off duty yes, but he reported to Cptn lord at 4:30 and the two of them talked for adout 50 minutes!!!

With all respect, Don
 
Sep 20, 2000
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I believe he's got you there, Tracy.

[Stanley Lord, British Inquiry]:
7370. Did you remain asleep until 4. 30? - Until 4. 30.
7371. Then did you go on the bridge? - I went on the bridge.
7372. And I think you afterwards heard of the sinking of the "Titanic"? - Yes.
The Commissioner: We have had all this, you know.
7373. (Mr. Dunlop.) I am coming now, my Lord, to the questions I want to put. (To the Witness.) You were surprised about the "Titanic." Did you question your Second Officer as to why you had not been called? - I did.
7374. What was his explanation to you? - He said that he sent down and called me; he had sent Gibson down, and Gibson told him I was awake and I had said, "All right, let me know if anything is wanted." I was surprised at him not getting me out, considering rockets had been fired. He said if they had been distress rockets he would most certainly have come down and called me himself but he was not a little bit worried about it all.
...

You get far better mileage with those primary sources! :)

Cheers,
John
 

Don Tweed

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Tracy,
I think John and myself may owe you an apology!
I looked into it a little bit more and it was Stewart who conversed with Cptn Lord!!! I got my names mixed up there!
Stewart, Stone, simple mistake. I was kind of tired when I posted that first entry. To many names swirling around in my head!

But, I will always wonder what those two talked about?

All my best, Don
happy.gif


P.S.- Hope your bronchitis is better!!!
 
Dec 2, 2000
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Okay, a little scorecard here so we can keep track of the names. Feel free to refer to liberally in case of illness or a senior moment.
wink.gif


Stanley Lord; Captain
George F. Stewart; Cheif Officer
Herbert Stone; Second Officer
Charles V. Groves; Third Officer
James Gibson; Apprentice Officer
Cyril Evans; Marconi Operator
Ernest Gill; Donkeyman

We now return you to your regularly scheduled debate, already in progress.
happy.gif


Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
 

Tracy Smith

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No problem, Don
happy.gif
.

Bronchitis isn't much better....I hacked and coughed my way through work for another day. And I got a tetanus shot last Monday for stepping on a rusty tack. It's a wonder I'm still standing.
 
Sep 20, 2000
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Mike: I'm definitely with you on this one. At last count, as far as I recall, that Second Officer -- the one Lord specifically mentioned questioning in his above testimony -- *was* actually Herbert Stone. ;^)

(So Don, you were basically correct the first time, though I don't know about the "50 minutes" part. However, I wouldn't doubt that Lord also had lengthy discussions with Stewart at the time.)

Tracy: No big deal. Just keeping you honest here. Hope you're back "in the pink" very soon!

To be admittedly devilish (but with humorous intent), Don, it sounds like you may have come down with a case of Lord's Syndrome. (The good captain also seemed to have some difficulty keeping those two names straight.) ;^)

Cheers,
John
 

Don Tweed

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Seems a little ironic I speak of Walter Lord on the very day that we lose him.
I am very sad today for our loss of this mentor who led me here.

May god bless his soul.
You all take care, Don
 
Mar 21, 2006
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Monday morning, April 15, 1912. The 'Californian' is still adrift, having stopped because of an ice field. To the south, at approx. 5:30 am local time various crew on the 'Californian' can see to the south a 4-masted ship w/ 1 funnel, whose colors they can make out. Soon, the 'Californian' sails to the CQD position on the OTHER side of the ice field. Since 'Californian' could SEE 'Carpathia', did it suddenly occur to them that THEY could be seen, and 'Californian' went to hide? Just speculation....
 
May 27, 2007
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I believe that Capt. Lord had a suspicion that something was happening. But he didn't want to risk his ship. I can't say I blame him. He was surrounded by ice and couldn't get there to save folks by the time Titanic sunk anyways. I think he knew it and so was very particular then his Officers on duty started telling him that a ship was sending up <font color="ffffff">White Rockets. Or maybe there was just a certain amount of slackness aboard the Californian like Walter Lord claimed in his book TNLO.
 

Paul Lee

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According to an interview that Walter Lord had with 3rd Officer Groves in 1957, "Lord was so upset [at news of the Titanic disaster] he tells Groves to “shoot the sun” (a term referring to obtaining data from a solar observation using a sextant to gather navigational data) before the sun was up"

Paul

Pre-order my ebook at http://www.paullee.com/book_details.php
 
May 27, 2007
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Now why didn't Walter Lord ever mention that in his books ANTR or TNLO? That's a vital piece of information and yet its not mentioned and that not like Walter Lord when its valid.
 

Dave Gittins

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Maybe Walter Lord regarded Groves' comments as cynically as I do. Groves was a great one for embroidering his story with picturesque details, such as the school of dolphins that he thought he saw.

Part of the fun of Titanic research is trying to judge the value of evidence. Personally, I rate Groves' evidence as very poor. Too much of it, such as his timings of events, was given after the main facts of the disaster were public knowledge. I wish he'd written a statement on 18 April, like Stone and Gibson.

By the way, there's no evidence that Groves, or anybody else on Californian, got a sun sight on the morning of 15 April. By about 9-00am, they could have got a longitude, but Captain Lord is quite clear that the longitude he gave for the floating debris was derived by dead reckoning from an afternoon sight.

Please pass the salt shaker!
 

Paul Lee

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I so agree Dave! His story is 1957 (and not "The Middle Watch") is so very different from what he said in 1912.
 

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