When did the well deck flood, and A-Deck?


Cam Houseman

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Hi y’all
I was wondering, what time did the well deck flood, go under, and C and B-Deck?
me and a friend were arguing about it, as I have heard The forward end of A-Deck was flooding at this time. Kathy Gilnagh also said that when Collapsible D lowered, and she jumped down into it, her head was barely lower than the boat deck.
But, I have also heard that the well deck was “awash” at 2:05. Which is it? I looked through some testimony but haven’t found anything yet.

leads to my seconds question, when Did the interior of C and B-Deck flood? Are there any accounts of it?
Thanks for the help!! :)
 
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When No. 4 was lowered water was entering the ship though the windows on B Deck.
When No. D was lowing into the water, forward A Deck got swashed. Hugh Woolner and Björnström-Steffanson were at that time on A Deck got up on the rail and jumped out to boat D.
 
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Jim Currie

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This from the evidence of Junior WO/Bride:
"6542.
- I explained to the "Baltic" that we had had a collision, and we were sinking fast.
16543. When you sent that message was Mr. Phillips there?
- No.
16544. Where had he gone?
- He had gone outside to have a look round.
16548. Did he tell you what he had found out?
- Yes
16549. What did he say?
- He told me the forward well deck was awash."

The Baltic did not record that conversatin but the Mount Temple shows the sinking fast narrative as 11-20 EST which on an unaltered Titanic clock was 1-22am . The Olympic did not record ir either.
 
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Cam Houseman

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This from the evidence of Junior WO/Bride:
"6542.
- I explained to the "Baltic" that we had had a collision, and we were sinking fast.
16543. When you sent that message was Mr. Phillips there?
- No.
16544. Where had he gone?
- He had gone outside to have a look round.
16548. Did he tell you what he had found out?
- Yes
16549. What did he say?
- He told me the forward well deck was awash."

The Baltic did not record that conversatin but the Mount Temple shows the sinking fast narrative as 11-20 EST which on an unaltered Titanic clock was 1-22am . The Olympic did not record ir either.
thanks jim!
 

Cam Houseman

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When No. 4 was lowered water was entering the ship though the windows on B Deck.
When No. D was lowing into the water, forward A Deck got swashed. Hugh Woolner and Björnström-Steffanson were at that time on A Deck got up on the rail and jumped out to boat D.
is there any testimony at the inquiry about the B-Deck windows going under? I pulled up a list from ET of the occupents of lifeboat 4, and am reading Mr. Ranger's testimony now
 
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Mar 18, 2008
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is there any testimony at the inquiry about the B-Deck windows going under?

Sure:

Mrs Ryerson
The ropes seemed to stick at one end and the boat tipped, some one called for a knife, but it was not needed until we got into the water, as it was but a short distance, and I then realized for the first time how far the ship had sunk. The deck we left was only about 20 feet from the sea. I could see all the portholes open and water washing in, and the decks still lighted. (Affidavit, subscribed and sworn 9th day of May, 1912)

Q. Did you notice anything in particular about the portholes on the water?
- Yes, the water was washing in the portholes, and later I think some of the square windows seemed to be open, and you could see in the cabin and see the water washing in and the gold furniture and decorations, and I remember noticing you could look far in, it was brilliantly lighted - which deck I couldn’t tell.
(Limitation of Liability Hearings, 17 day of June, 1913)

Miss Eustis & Mrs. Stephenson

"When we reached the sea we found the ship badly listed, her nose well in so that there was water to the D deck, which we could plainly see as the boat was lighted and the ports on D deck were square instead of round."
(Our Story, 1912)

B Deck was the first deck which had squared windows. All decks below had the round portholes.
 
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Arun Vajpey

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When No. 4 was lowered water was entering the ship though the windows on B Deck.
When No. D was lowing into the water, forward A Deck got swashed. Hugh Woolner and Björnström-Steffanson were at that time on A Deck got up on the rail and jumped out to boat D.
Yes. Collapsible D was lowered at about 02:05 am and had a very short distance to lower before it reached the water, which was already starting to flood the A-deck from where Woolner and Steffansson jumped into #D. Of course, all that was on the port side towards which the Titanic had a significant list by then.

The situation was different on the starboard side which was higher due to the port list. They were unable to drag Collapsible A uphill into position. It was not until the Titanic suddenly lost its longitudinal stability at 02:15 am and gave a sudden forward and downward 'lurch' that water gushed up the forward hatchway onto the boat deck, floating Collapsible A free; Steward Edward Brown I think it was who cut the last of the lines. That rush of water was what was described by several people further aft as a 'wave' that washed away several people.
 

Cam Houseman

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Sure:

Mrs Ryerson
The ropes seemed to stick at one end and the boat tipped, some one called for a knife, but it was not needed until we got into the water, as it was but a short distance, and I then realized for the first time how far the ship had sunk. The deck we left was only about 20 feet from the sea. I could see all the portholes open and water washing in, and the decks still lighted. (Affidavit, subscribed and sworn 9th day of May, 1912)

Q. Did you notice anything in particular about the portholes on the water?
- Yes, the water was washing in the portholes, and later I think some of the square windows seemed to be open, and you could see in the cabin and see the water washing in and the gold furniture and decorations, and I remember noticing you could look far in, it was brilliantly lighted - which deck I couldn’t tell.
(Limitation of Liability Hearings, 17 day of June, 1913)

Miss Eustis & Mrs. Stephenson

"When we reached the sea we found the ship badly listed, her nose well in so that there was water to the D deck, which we could plainly see as the boat was lighted and the ports on D deck were square instead of round."
(Our Story, 1912)

B Deck was the first deck which had squared windows. All decks below had the round portholes.
thanks. didn't No. 4 begin to lower at 1:55 and had trouble? what time did they cast off?
 
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thanks. didn't No. 4 begin to lower at 1:55 and had trouble? what time did they cast off?

According to some occupants No. 4 was having problems during lowering. A time of the cast off is really very difficult, no one took the time. I guess around 1:55 to 2 o'clock.
If you accept 2:05 for Collapsible D then No. 4 was already on her way to the stern of the ship.
 
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Cam Houseman

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Yes. Collapsible D was lowered at about 02:05 am and had a very short distance to lower before it reached the water, which was already starting to flood the A-deck from where Woolner and Steffansson jumped into #D. Of course, all that was on the port side towards which the Titanic had a significant list by then.

The situation was different on the starboard side which was higher due to the port list. They were unable to drag Collapsible A uphill into position. It was not until the Titanic suddenly lost its longitudinal stability at 02:15 am and gave a sudden forward and downward 'lurch' that water gushed up the forward hatchway onto the boat deck, floating Collapsible A free; Steward Edward Brown I think it was who cut the last of the lines. That rush of water was what was described by several people further aft as a 'wave' that washed away several people.
correct! the same wave that washed the baby out of John Collin's arms
 

Cam Houseman

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Sure:

Mrs Ryerson
The ropes seemed to stick at one end and the boat tipped, some one called for a knife, but it was not needed until we got into the water, as it was but a short distance, and I then realized for the first time how far the ship had sunk. The deck we left was only about 20 feet from the sea. I could see all the portholes open and water washing in, and the decks still lighted. (Affidavit, subscribed and sworn 9th day of May, 1912)

Q. Did you notice anything in particular about the portholes on the water?
- Yes, the water was washing in the portholes, and later I think some of the square windows seemed to be open, and you could see in the cabin and see the water washing in and the gold furniture and decorations, and I remember noticing you could look far in, it was brilliantly lighted - which deck I couldn’t tell.
(Limitation of Liability Hearings, 17 day of June, 1913)

Miss Eustis & Mrs. Stephenson

"When we reached the sea we found the ship badly listed, her nose well in so that there was water to the D deck, which we could plainly see as the boat was lighted and the ports on D deck were square instead of round."
(Our Story, 1912)

B Deck was the first deck which had squared windows. All decks below had the round portholes.
A friend of mine made a simulation of the sinking, we've been having an argument about ship's position from 1:55-2:05am
(numbers in the corner is the time during the sinking)
1616354263720.png


where the ship is at 1:55 in his simulation, view from No. 4 (just sent him Mrs. Ryerson's testimony, guess I'll see what he says)
1616354906538.png


this is where the ship is in his simulation, Collapsible D is lowering
1616354426176.png


Refers to Quarter Master Bright's testimony, again and again, who also left in Collapsible D

Senator FLETCHER.
Did you lie on your oars then and wait?

Mr. BRIGHT.
We were told to keep together, if possible; in the boats.

Senator FLETCHER.
Was it 25 or 30 minutes or an hour?

Mr. BRIGHT.
No; I should say it was as near half an hour as possible. When I left, the forecastle was going under water.



not quite sure what to think at this point, but I think Mrs. Ryerson is most likely correct
 

Arun Vajpey

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Correct! The same wave that washed the baby out of John Collin's arms
Yes, but not just Collins; he had one small child in his arms and another unnamed steward had another. The mother of those children was somewhere with them, as was August Wennerstom holding on to 2 more children. They were trying to reach Collapsible A when the 'wave' hit and they were all washed overboard. The adults lost their grips on the children and sadly, all four were lost, as was the woman and very likely the other steward. Only Wennerstrom and Collins survived; the former managed to get on board the partly flooded Collapsible A while Collins was eventually pulled on board the overturned Collapsible B.

We cannot be certain of course, but IMO the most likely candidate for the woman is the Swede Alma Palsson; she was travelling with her 4 children to join her husband Nils, who was working as a tram conductor in Chicago.
 
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