Where was the location of the breakup?


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Aaron_2016

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The boiler rooms have not been inspected so we don't know which doors were open or closed on the wreck. Very little has ever been debunked because it is very often one theory versus another with no concrete evidence for either as we largely only have supposition and survivor testimony to go by. e.g. The ship may have broken into three large pieces. The middle section would hold the bow and stern together and as each section twisted and rocked like a chinese burn they would eventually separate and the stern would keel violently over to port. The bow may have keeled violently over to starboard. Before all of this however the fractures on the hull were she broke would slowly progress and then flood the middle of the ship rapidly in the middle until she sagged, causing the downward trim to ease away and allow the remaining lifeboats to be launched. The fracture would become more severe and mountains of water would rush into the middle.

Joughin said the E-deck corridor was dry when he left and that was shortly before she began to break. There is good reason to believe that many rooms from decks A - E were dry, especially on the starboard side. Hundreds of rooms would remain dry or merely damp as the the water travelled around, but it would first of all have to flood each lower deck, one at a time, and it still had not flooded the large corridor on E-deck shortly before she broke. So there is no reason to believe the bow was filled up entirely, or even significantly before she broke. The break up however would cause mountains of water to rush into her and from that point on she would sink very rapidly in the middle as survivors described. e.g.


- Also one significant factor is that survivors heard a huge explosion that killed many people.


Mr. Weikman
"I was about 15 feet away from the ship when I heard a second explosion.....I think the boilers blew up about in the middle of the ship. The explosion blew me along with a wall of water.......There was a great number of people killed by the explosion, and there was a great number that managed to get far enough away that the explosion did not injure them"


Mrs Hippach
"We heard a fearful explosion. I saw the ship split open. At the same time the ship’s bow rose up in the air as the steamer sank towards the center."


William Mellors
"We were trying to fix up a collapsible boat when she gave the first signs of going under. There seemed to be a tremble run through the whole of the ship and the next thing we heard were loud reports inside which I think were the watertight doors giving way and before you could say Jack Robinson there seemed to be mountains of water rushing through the doors, and I was swept away from where I was right against the collapsible boat, and I simply clung on for all I was worth, whilst all this was going on she was going under water and it seemed as if thousands of men were dragging me under with her, when suddenly, her nose (bow) on which I was, seemed to suddenly rise from underneath the water and I and a few more that were close by cut the ropes that held the boat to the falls. There was suddenly an explosion and I found myself whizzing through the water at an awful pace, having been blown away by the explosion. When I came to my senses a few minutes after I looked round and suddenly saw the ship part in the middle with the stern standing several hundred feet out of the water, at this time I was trying to swim away from her......After she had gone the sight that met one’s eyes was terrible. There were great masses of wreckage with hundreds of human beings fighting amongst hundreds of dead bodies for their lives."


Eugene Daly
"I reached a collapsible boat that was fastened to the deck by two rings. It could not be moved. During that brief time that I worked on cutting one of those ropes, the Titanic gave a lurch downward and we were in the water up to our hips. She rose again slightly, and I succeeded in cutting the second rope which held her stern. Another lurch threw this boat myself off and away from the ship into the water."


Note - Ruth Becker saw the ship explode and very clearly saw it break in half. Yet Lawrence Beesley who was in the same lifeboat wrote in his 1913 book that she did not explode and was very clear that she did not break in half. It is clear that he was 'bought' by the White Star Line who likely pressured him to censor his book. If they could handle the official Inquiry, then suppressing his book would have been very easy.


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Yet Lawrence Beesley who was in the same lifeboat wrote in his 1913 book that she did not explode and was very clear that she did not break in half. It is clear that he was 'bought' by the White Star Line who likely pressured him to censor his book. If they could handle the official Inquiry, then suppressing his book would have been very easy.
.

So what is your source that he was bought by White Star and lied?

The boiler rooms have not been inspected so we don't know which doors were open or closed on the wreck.

Boiler room No. 2 has.
As it was stated earlier the doors would close automaticity when the water reached the base.


Joughin said the E-deck corridor was dry when he left and that was shortly before she began to break.

Where did he said that it was shortly before the break up?

Also one significant factor is that survivors heard a huge explosion that killed many people.

It is only Weikmann who claimed that the "explosion" killed many people. Thayer was close too and did not mentioned it as well as Wennerström, Gracie, P. Daly and several others.

There is good reason to believe that many rooms from decks A - E were dry, especially on the starboard side.

By the time of the final plunge these decks were already flooded.
 
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Note - Ruth Becker saw the ship explode and very clearly saw it break in half.
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Did she really saw it explode?

"We could see the port lights go under one by one until there was an awful explosion of the boilers bursting. And then the ship seemed to break right down the middle."
(Ruth Becker, St. Nicholas Magazine, 1913).
 
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Harland Duzen

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Is it possible, that as the Titanic sank, as she righted herself, the watertight doors (now underwater) became realigned and then closed automatically?

Titanic hits Iceberg and temporary tilts to Starboard.

Titanic rights herself and begins to tilt to Port

Titanic veers over to Port with steep list.

Titanic's begins to sink (her bridge underwater) and she rights herself again making the doors shut now fixed.
 
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Aaron_2016

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So what is your source that he was bought by White Star and lied?

Pitman and Boxhall said she did not break in two and yet survivors in their lifeboats said she did. We know she did, so it's obvious they lied as Lightoller said the Inquiry was a "whitewash" and how the company won.

I'm sure this sentence was repeated many times in discreet hallways - "If you want to get on old boy, keep your mouth shut."


Boiler room No. 2 has.
As it was stated earlier the doors would close automaticity when the water reached the base.

You said - "The watertight doors were only opened aft and forward of the main engine room but only up to BR. 4 (they are closed at the wreck by the way)."

I assumed you were referring that all of the doors fore and aft of the engine room had been inspected on the wreck, not just one of them. If it was a hard task to raise the doors manually, they could easily improvise and wedge something in them to prop them up, not realising that water would rush in later on.


Where did he said that it was shortly before the break up?

Joughin

Q - You have said that when you were down, I think in the pantry, or was it again when you were in your quarters, you heard a noise that you thought was the cracking, the breaking of the ship? What time would that be?
A - A few minutes after I had been to my room, I should say, after half-past one.

Combine this with testimony from survivors who felt an explosion and were in the water at 1:45 and 1:50 as their watches stopped. This was just a few minutes after Joughin had left his cabin on E-deck. Quartermaster Rowe got into Collapsible C at 1:25am and Pearcey was in this boat and noticed she was sinking bodily. Joughin was in his cabin after the boat left. He noticed the corridor was dry on E-deck, but there was water in his cabin which was above the engine room. He saw men trying to close the watertight door outside his room. Perhaps they were told that water was coming in aft as the ship was starting to buckle in the engine room below him.


It is only Weikmann who claimed that the "explosion" killed many people. Thayer was close too and did not mentioned it as well as Wennerström, Gracie, P. Daly and several others.

There were others who saw bodies and people thrown by the explosion. They found debris floating near the collapsible boat and used this to frantically paddle away from the ship as she went down.

By the time of the final plunge these decks were already flooded.

What testimony supports this? We have no knowledge of any of the decks A - E actually flooded. They were submerged below the waterline and we just assume they were flooded, but since we know the largest corridor on E-deck was still not flooded when Collapsible C left the ship, we can easily see that those decks were not flooded.

The port list was so bad that the passengers were ordered to the starboard side, fearing she would topple over. Likely this was aided by the amount of air inside the ship that was causing the starboard side to rise up and the port side to keel over more.


Major Peuchen delivered an interesting theory to the US Inquiry. He could be right.

"I should think they were from above. I imagined that the decks had blown up with the pressure, pulling the boat down, bow on, this heavyweight, and the air between the decks; that is my theory of the explosion. I do not know whether it is correct or not, but I do not think it was the boilers. I think it was the pressure, that heavy weight shoving that down, the water rushing up, and the air coming between the decks; something had to go."


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Kyle Naber

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The explosion at funnel No. 2 is only a theory. There was a list to port when the aft port boats and No. 15 on the starboard side were lowered. The "V" break theory was not only wrong it has been also debunked as wrong especially with the large tower debris from the break area.
The staircase did not left the ship out of the dome. I don't know why people take what happened at the movie set for real. It was not build as the original, also the water inside would be up under the dome and like in the movie. The wreckage also shows that it left the ship in pieces though the break aft.
As the break was at boiler room No. 1 how did that flood the main engine room sacking it down in the middle?

I don't think all five flights of stairs were ripped out or intact. I'd be surprised if this was the case. Perhaps the first two decks broke free. This could explain why there are still a few remains at the bottom. I couldn't think of any other explination as to why 8+ people said that the bow rose back out the water, which is impossible. I believe something did float to the surface, but certainly not the ship.

Also, if a sinking ship is listing to port, why wouldn't the second funnel fall in the same direction as the first? I think something would have had to kick the funnel in the opposite direction, like a dust explosion.

I could still be wrong, though, and they're only just theories like you said.
 

Kyle Naber

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There were others who saw bodies and people thrown by the explosion. They found debris floating near the collapsible boat and used this to frantically paddle away from the ship as she went down.

I think people were blown off the ship at the very last moments during the final plunge and just after the break. The breakup was very violent as the stern was shaking and bobbing around after settling in the water. People then jumped and were thrown off the back. After rearing up on end, the air left in the stern was forced out of the ship through the decks and out of the windows which would literally blast people away from the ship. I think this is what is meant by "many people were killed by the explosion."
 
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Aaron_2016

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Very often the 'impossible' is possible. So many people still question the collapse of the Twin towers because they say it is physically impossible because they fell almost at free fall speed, and they say it is impossible that the plane struck the Pentagon because the damage is so small and it is impossible that flight 93 struck the ground because there is so little debris. Like I said, something that is conceived to be impossible does not mean it can't happen. When the Titanic broke the water could drain right out of the ship and pull her back. If many portholes were open aft then the water could flood that area and ease away the downward trim. The weight of the engines and the stern was heavy enough, but imagine putting much more weight on it. Like adding people to a four legged see-saw ride with no way of knowing which way she is going to tilt. The Captain and officers yelled out for everyone to go to the starboard side - Hemming - "The captain was there, and he sung out: "Everyone over to the starboard side, to keep the ship up as long as possible." This is rarely mentioned (if at all) in any documentaries, and yet it must have played a significant role in how the ship was flooding.



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Rob Lawes

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Imagine for a second all the doors between boiler room 5 as far back as the engine room were open.

If five suddenly flooded as you seem to suggest Aaron, then water always finds its way to the lowest part of the ship. With Titanic's heavy list the water would initially collect against the port bulkhead. It would then top up the compartment and flood through the open door into the next boiler room and again flow down against the port bulkhead. This increases the list to port. Note the flooding of the next compartment aft occurs before the first compartment is fully flooded. This continues further and further aft and the list would increase until the ship rolled over. We know that didn't happen.

Now imagine the bulkhead door between 4 and 5 was shut as 3 witnesses say it was. Boiler room 5 floods but instead of the water flowing further aft it is contained until the whole boiler room floods. Meanwhile, due to the increased downward trim at the bow, the fwd well deck dips below the surface. Now water is pouring into every conceivable access. There was at least one air conditioning vent on the well deck, there were the access doors into the crews and third class quarters and the access hatches to the holds. As water pours in through these points it fills the various compartments up rapidly across all decks at least as far back to just below the bridge initially. This spread of flooding would help to bring the ship back toward a more even keel.

That is only possible if the boiler room 5/4 door is shut.
 
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Pitman and Boxhall said she did not break in two and yet survivors in their lifeboats said she did. We know she did, so it's obvious they lied as Lightoller said the Inquiry was a "whitewash" and how the company won.

I'm sure this sentence was repeated many times in discreet hallways - "If you want to get on old boy, keep your mouth shut."

And what did that have to do with Beesley? He was no officer and no crew member. Also crew members mentioned that she broke.


You said - "The watertight doors were only opened aft and forward of the main engine room but only up to BR. 4 (they are closed at the wreck by the way)."

I assumed you were referring that all of the doors fore and aft of the engine room had been inspected on the wreck, not just one of them. If it was a hard task to raise the doors manually, they could easily improvise and wedge something in them to prop them up, not realising that water would rush in later on.

The door at the forward part of BR 2 is closed as well as the aft door of the main engine room (leading to the turbine engine room) is closed.
The door were opened by the crew, there was nothing put in them to hold them open. That is only speculation on your part.



Joughin

Q - You have said that when you were down, I think in the pantry, or was it again when you were in your quarters, you heard a noise that you thought was the cracking, the breaking of the ship? What time would that be?
A - A few minutes after I had been to my room, I should say, after half-past one.

Combine that with testimony from survivors who felt an explosion and were in the water at 1:45 and 1:50 because their watches stopped. This was just a few minutes after Joughin left his cabin on E-deck. Quartermaster Rowe got into Collapsible C at 1:25am and Pearcey was in this boat and noticed she was sinking bodily. Joughin was in his cabin and noticed the water was in his cabin above the engine room and he also noticed the water had receded from the corridor outside his room.

Joughin was mistaken about the time. His testimony is in a few parts not clear. However after leaving his cabin he went up to B Deck throwing deck chairs overboard before he went to the lounge pantry on A Deck when he heard the noises.

6026. Yes, what next? - I went down on to "B" deck. The deck chairs were lying right along, and I started throwing deck chairs through the large ports.
6027. What did you do with the deck chairs? - I threw them through the large ports.
6028. Threw them overboard? - Yes.
6031. Tell us why; was it to give something to cling to? - I was looking out for something for myself, Sir.
6032. Quite so. Did you throw a whole lot of them overboard? - I should say about 50.
6039. Then, after having thrown these deck chairs overboard, did you go up to the boat deck again? - I went to the deck pantry.
6040. Tell us what happened? - I went to the deck pantry, and while I was in there I thought I would take a drink of water, and while I was getting the drink of water I heard a kind of a crash as if something had buckled, as if part of the ship had buckled, and then I heard a rush overhead.
6041. Do you mean a rush of people? - Yes, a rush of people overhead on the deck.
6042. Is the deck pantry on A deck? - Yes.
6043. So that the deck above would be the boat deck? - Yes, I could hear it.
6049. You say that you heard this sound of buckling or crackling. Was it loud; could anybody in the ship hear it? - You could have heard it, but you did not really know what it was. It was not an explosion or anything like that. It was like as if the iron was parting.
6050. Like the breaking of metal? - Yes.

Rowe was wrong about the time Collapsible C left. Others said the ship sunk about 20 minutes after they left. Also when No. C was loaded and lowered the ship had a list to port (roughly about 8° to 10°). Barrett left BR 5 about 1:10 a.m. (according to his BOT testimony) and made in on A Deck in time to get into boat No. 13. When No. 13 was lowered there was no list to port!



There were others who saw bodies and people thrown by the explosion. They found debris floating near the collapsible boat and used this to frantically paddle away from the ship as she went down.

Jack Thayer:

"I saw the ship in a sort of red glare, and it seemed to me that she broke in two just in front of the 3rd funnel. This time I was sucked down, and as I came up I was pushed out again and twisted around by a large wave, coming up in the midst of a great deal of small wreckage."


No testimony supports this. We have no knowledge of any of the decks A - E actually flooded. The port list was so bad that the passengers were ordered to the starboard side, fearing she would topple over. Likely this was aided by the amount of air inside the ship that was causing the starboard side to rise and the port side to keel over more.

Titanic was not a submersible. There were openings everywhere where air could escape.
The condition of the cabins in the wreck on these deck are proof enough against your claim.

Regarding water reaching E Deck here a few:

Mrs. Robinson
13277. When you got to the top of the stairs which lead down to the mail room what did you see? – I saw two mail-bags and a man’s Gladstone bag, and on looking down the staircase I saw water within six steps of coming on E deck.

Steward Cunningham
Mr. Cunningham: “… I looked down on E deck to see how things were there. There was a stairway that led from E deck to the post office, and the water was down there then. That was level with F deck.”

Steward Ray

Mr. Ray: “I got my overcoat on. I went along E deck. There was nobody in No. 3 when I left.”
Senator Smith: “No. 3 room?”
Mr. Ray: „No. 3 room, were I slept. I went along E deck and forward, and the forward part of E deck was under water. I could just manage to get through the doorway into the main stairway. I went across to the other side of the ship where the passengers’ cabins were; saw nobody there. I looked to see where the water was and it was corresponding on that side of the ship with the port side. I walked leisurely up to the main stairway…”
11001. Then, when you got to E deck, the top of these stairs, you could tell whether the water was coming in along E deck or not? – Yes.
11002. Was it? – It was coming from forward.
11004. Was it coming along that working alleyway? – No.
11005. Then were was it coming? – From the starboard side. The working alleyway was quite dry.


Miss Emilie Kreuchen to Miss Elisabeth Allen
“… I went into the corridor and she said, “Miss Allen, the baggage room is full of water.” … She went back and returned to us immediately to say her cabin, which was forward on Deck E, was flooded. …”

Lady Duff Gordon about Laura Francatelli (letter from May 1912):
"Franks rushed into my room in hysterics. The dear girl said she had seen the water coming along the corridor after her as she fled her room below."
 
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Aaron_2016

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Yes, but E-deck is still not flooded. Water was entering the forward part because Lightoller had the forward gangway door opened, but Joughin saw the water had receded from the corridor which supports the righting movement of the ship. Another factor that could make the ship roll to port and then to starboard is the result of water coming into open portholes from cabins or compartments in the decks above. If they filled and contained water they could make the ship top heavy.

Lightoller believed the weight of the people moving over to the starboard side had successfully rolled the ship level again. Would be interesting to know how stable the ship was at that moment and if the buoyancy was making her rock e.g.


Mr. Barkworth
"When the ship gave the first dip we all went aft. I remember somebody shouted: 'Go gently!' as if a sudden shift of weight would have disturbed the ship's position."

Mr. Lightoller
"When the order was given to the passengers to go to the starboard side I am under the impression that a great many went over and the ship got a righting movement and maintained it"



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I don't think all five flights of stairs were ripped out or intact. I'd be surprised if this was the case. Perhaps the first two decks broke free. This could explain why there are still a few remains at the bottom. I couldn't think of any other explination as to why 8+ people said that the bow rose back out the water, which is impossible. I believe something did float to the surface, but certainly not the ship.

The remains of the D Deck candelabra are close to the bow, in a line to the break area. The base of the cherub from A Deck was recovered also somewhere close to the bow.

Also, if a sinking ship is listing to port, why wouldn't the second funnel fall in the same direction as the first? I think something would have had to kick the funnel in the opposite direction, like a dust explosion.

The ship had come to an even keel as mentioned by some.
 
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Aaron_2016

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?
The survivors above all mentioned how the water reached E Deck and started to flood it. What do you expect, that they stayed there to make sure that it went under water?
So what is your source for a dry E Deck? And if E Deck was dry why did the ship sunk?


Survivors saw water in the forward section of E-deck and the forward part of the corridor. Charles Joughin saw the water in his cabin far aft. His cabin was above the engine room and practically over the spot where she broke in two. After 1:30am he noticed the long corridor was relatively dry and did not know where the water had gone or receded to. He noticed the ship was listing more to port and he believed the port list was much more noticeable than the downward tilt. He saw men trying to close the watertight door outside his room and then went up. As he was perhaps the last survivor to be there, we have to assume the corridor did not flood until very near the end. If that corridor did not flood until the end, then there is no reason to believe the decks above had flooded entirely before she broke. Quartermaster Rowe looked at his watch during the collision and noted it was 11:40pm. He also noted the time when he got into collapsible C. It was 1.25am. He said it took a good 5 minutes to lower the boat because of the list to port and the boat was being caught against the rivets as they slid down the hull. This tells us the port list was very much still there, yet Lightoller said the ship had righted herself before this. We assume he was referring to the port list easing away, but clearly it wasn't. According to Prentice the ship righted herself while they were getting the aft lifeboats away. One can only assume that the 'righting' was in relation to the downward trim easing away and not the port list. When collapsible C was in the water Mr. Pearcey was in the boat and he said she was not sinking by the head when he looked at her, but noticed she was listing to port.

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Quartermaster Rowe looked at his watch during the collision and noted it was 11:40pm. He also noted the time when he got into collapsible C. It was 1.25am. He said it took a good 5 minutes to lower the boat because of the list to port and the boat was being caught against the rivets as they slid down the hull. This tells us the port list was very much still there, yet Lightoller said the ship had righted herself before this. We assume he was referring to the port list easing away, but clearly it wasn't. According to Prentice the ship righted herself while they were getting the aft lifeboats away. One can only assume that the 'righting' was in relation to the downward trim easing away and not the port list. When collapsible C was in the water Mr. Pearcey was in the boat and he said she was not sinking by the head when he looked at her, but noticed she was listing to port.

So let us see. Boat C left at 1:25 because Rowe said so. Right?

So boat C left with a list to port before boat 13 where no list was. Boat 15 left after boat 13 (and with that after boat C) while there was a list to port (as well as with boats Nos. 14, 12 & 10).
With that it also means Ismay left the ship in boat C at 1:25. A boat he helped to load before jumping in with Carter. So how does that fit that Ismay was seen at No. 11 (he send Edith Rosenbaum down to A Deck), was seen by Boxhall before he left with boat No. 2 when according to you he should have been in boat C?
1:25 + 5 minutes = 1:30.
So boat C spend 50 Minutes in the water before the ship went down, meaning all who were in the boat stating it sank about 20 minutes after they left were wrong or lied. Right?
 
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Aaron_2016

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No. I am only stating what Rowe said. None of us know which survivors were telling the truth. Some said the collision happened around 11:15pm, others said 11:40pm, others said midnight. Something as important as this, and yet there are experts who cant agree on the time of the collision. We have to rely on what the survivors said. Watches stopped around 1:50am. Two explosions were heard up to 20 minutes apart. My guess is, (all we can do is guess) is that if Rowe was correct about his timing then the first explosion occurred around 1:50 which caused the bridge to plunge down as the ship began to break and watches stopped. The rear of the bow then flooded rapidly and the stern canted upwards owing to the weight in that section (added with the weight of the engines). The bow reeled and then sank. The stern keeled over to port. There was a huge wail as everyone on the stern fell into the water. Edith Russell thought they were cheering and she said the people in the lifeboat cheered thinking the people on the ship had been saved, not realizing they were dying. The stern turned around and hid most of her lights. There was a second explosion 20 minutes later (Archer - "about 20 minutes between each explosion") and the lights were still on the stern (Brice - "The lights were still on in the after end of the ship after the first and second explosions."). The bow finally detached and the lights went out. The stern canted upwards and then paused while in the air, before keeling back slightly and slid down into the sea.


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Kyle Naber

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No. I am only stating what Rowe said. None of us know which survivors were telling the truth. Some said the collision happened around 11:15pm, others said 11:40pm, others said midnight. Something as important as this, and yet there are experts who cant agree on the time of the collision. We have to rely on what the survivors said. Watches stopped around 1:50am. Two explosions were heard up to 20 minutes apart. My guess is, (all we can do is guess) is that if Rowe was correct about his timing then the first explosion occurred around 1:50 which caused the bridge to plunge down as the ship began to break and watches stopped. The rear of the bow then flooded rapidly and the stern canted upwards owing to the weight in that section (added with the weight of the engines). The bow reeled and then sank. The stern keeled over to port. There was a huge wail as everyone on the stern fell into the water. Edith Russell thought they were cheering and she said the people in the lifeboat cheered thinking the people on the ship had been saved, not realizing they were dying. The stern turned around and hid most of her lights. There was a second explosion 20 minutes later (Archer - "about 20 minutes between each explosion") and the lights were still on the stern (Brice - "The lights were still on in the after end of the ship after the first and second explosions."). The bow finally detached and the lights went out. The stern canted upwards and then paused while in the air, before keeling back slightly and slid down into the sea.


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So you're saying that survivor accounts, which vary widely, are more reliable than computerized calculations?
 
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Aaron_2016

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Computerised calculations? But we don't know what order each room flooded and when each floor flooded, which portholes were open, how extensive the iceberg damage really was, if there was a controlled effort to stabilize the ship and make the water travel a certain path, if doors were open or closed, and how the break up actually occurred, and how the port list may have put strain on one side of the ship and if Lightoller was correct in his theory that the weight of the passengers made the ship get a "righting movement". We also have survivors who saw the crew using spanners and trying to close the watertight doors in the decks above. If they succeeded in doing so or failed, and if the gangway doors were open.

There are so many unknowns and variables that calculations could produce a wide range of scenarios. Each one a possibility. Best choice is to pick the most likely one and go with it until further knowledge of the wreck is known.


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Kyle Naber

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Computerised calculations? But we don't know what order each room flooded and when each floor flooded, which portholes were open, how extensive the iceberg damage really was

No, but we can paint a pretty good picture. The first six compartments were opened on the starboard side as the ship ran over a ledge of an iceberg. Almost all of the portholes would have been closed as it was freezing cold and there is a very good chance that the crew opened and closed WTDs to prevent the ship from listing to either side. Putting this all into consideration, we can see the Titanic sink bodily mostly, aside from the last few minutes, a gradually increasing port list, and a 23 degree breaking angle. Those are the basic, generally accepted broad stokes.

In my opinion, forensic evidence holds more ground than survivor testimony which was brought to us by people who were asked to tell others about their blurry recollections of a tragic event.
 
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Chris cameron

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So you're saying that survivor accounts, which vary widely, are more reliable than computerized calculations?
No, but we can paint a pretty good picture. The first six compartments were opened on the starboard side as the ship ran over a ledge of an iceberg. Almost all of the portholes would have been closed as it was freezing cold and there is a very good chance that the crew opened and closed WTDs to prevent the ship from listing to either side. Putting this all into consideration, we can see the Titanic sink bodily mostly, aside from the last few minutes, a gradually increasing port list, and a 23 degree breaking angle. Those are the basic, generally accepted broad stokes.

In my opinion, forensic evidence holds more ground than survivor testimony which was brought to us by people who were asked to tell others about their blurry recollections of a tragic event.
While I believe that you are correct about forensic evidence, I do think that witness testimony has some reliabilty and some can be easily dismissed and taken with a grain of salt. When trying to understand or get an idea of what manner the ship sank by listening to survivor accounts and then using forensics to reconcile the events. I usually make my conclusion on how sank by using consistent accounts that agree with each other and dismissing the one that are obviously mistaken. The timing is an aspect I have frustrations of as they seem all over the place and contradict other accounts.

Side note. You mentioned Cameron's sinking theory and how it sank bodily until the the last stages where the stern was level and then only cleared the surface towards the end. Cameron is the only one to depict the the stern still in the water when the bridge and boat deck were submerged. This is consistent with film were the propellers are seen after the water line has reached second funnel and after the grand staircases dome collapses.Visually, the majority of the ship is underwater with only a portion of them superstructure above the water. Has there been any accounts that suggest that actually happened. They accounts seem very vague about how much of the hull was above the waterline.
 
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