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Anonymous
Member
At which shipyard was the Titanic constructed?
Milos Grkovic
Solo 3D modeller and Artist
Member
She was built by Harland & Wolff in Belfast, Ireland. @Encyclopedia Titanica mentioned that She was being built under the Arrol Gantry pictured below, alongside her sister ship the Olympic.
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Gayla Elizabeth Tedder
Member
She was built in Ireland, Belfast to be exact. When the outside was finished, the ship was sent to South Hampton to be "fitted" out which was when the furniture and other appointments were either built into the ship or placed in it.
Thomas Krom
Member
That is not true. While workmen of the Harland & Wolff Engineering in Southampton (Harland and Wolff had a business location in Southampton close to the docks) worked on the Titanic on the 4th to the 10th in Southampton. However she was not sended to Southampton after her exterior was finished, while she was unfinished she left Belfast on the Second of April she was fitted out in Belfast. Final touches were brought upon her in Southampton.
Rennette Marston
Rennette Marston
Member
Lovely picture, btw. Is that a postcard or a huge poster, by any chance?
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Mark Baber
Staff member
Moderator
Member
Ummm...what do you mean by this? It's not quite clear.
Thomas Krom
Member
That nearly all her interior, as in the pannels and other fittings, were installed in Belfast too. The final touches were done, such as all the plants and furniture in the right places, were done in Southampton. The Harland and Wolff guarantee group even had a decorator and painter on-board named Joey Thompson, who left the ship before she setted sail, who worked on the final touches with some of the Southampton workmen of Harland and Wolff.
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Polski24
Member
Yes Belfast, Irl. Southampton for fitting out. When you build a great ocean liner like Titanic you build the hull first. During the interior construction you use the carpenters from, in this case Belfast to shape the interior structures. When it comes to the intricate carvings, special lighting fixtures, stained glassworks, exc. you often use special carpenters that may be contracted for those specific things. They may not even show up. They ship the materials to Belfast to be installed. They could come from other places or countries. These are highly specialized craftsman that are often very desirable and in the free market as a result. There are very few men in the world that have some of these skill sets and interestingly white star, Cunard, Norchester Loydd, and Hamburg Line would often fight to get the same people, because they are the best. H and W is like a contractor, but only build for White Star. The owner and financier of the project is White Star which is owned by the super rich JP Morgan who wants to own the entire shipping industry. (He really did). Despite being the contractor H and W cannot do all aspects of the work so they hire private specialists to do some of the finer finishing type things and carvings. All the shipping lines of that time wanted the very best for 1st class opulence. These people were disliked by H and W employees. Like unions today hate scab workers. Southampton was for chairs, lamps, light fixtures, perhaps some unique carvings or stained glass, carpet, changes to original design. But it is also to complete specific projects outside the politics of the shipyard in English waters. All the while men like Andrews helped oversee the production, especially ship matters. Most shipping lines hired a designer. This person often worked against the architect because beauty on a ship always comes at a cost. Such as 16 lifeboats so first class passengers could see off the boat deck or lower bulkheads for a cleaner and larger space like the d-deck first class dining room (it was huge, deeper in the ship than usual, and only one story). Although these decisions were made by Ismay you get the point. To make beauty at sea you have to make sacrifices. I theorize that Titanic had many small changes to make it better than Olympic while in Southampton. Even though Olympic took parts off titanic after her collision with HMS Hawk. Shipping companies would create sister ships or triplets to save cost and would often build them nearly the same. They always planned in differences in cost effective ways that would make passengers know they are on a different ship. As for the Titanic however due to her short life we don’t really have a great picture of those differences but I suspect she was more spectacular than the Olympic in every way white start could manage. The ship sank, the GG died including andrews and we have few photos of the interior of the actual Titanic. I theorize while in Southampton, as she was stuck there because of Olympic they made some important last minute changes to the interior decorations which is important as far as how we view the ship in movies and digital recreations. Based on testimony of surviving passengers, visitors, and workers about working the last bits of fitting, there is a consensus that she had something special that Olympic did not have. I have researched for years what those things are but they are hard to prove. Building a ship in those days required thousands of men with specific skills that people today don’t have. Think of the plaster work, all of those wood panels and carvings, real gold on the grand staircase, massive intricately carved furniture, stained glass windows, chandeliers, metalsmithing, flooring and tapestries. These are the details that make the ship and are fairly easy to build in subtle differences. Much of the wood used during that time is impossible to find at the same quality and size because we don’t have trees old enough to log anymore. Everything that went into these ships will never be built again. And it is for the best. For what fueled that time in history is ultra rich barely paying for the labor of these craftsmen making for the ability to afford excess on the backs almost slave labor for a cheap price. Equality makes excess difficult to achieve. And it’s for the best that we leave it alone and see how these low paid craftsman built floating works of art that we can marvel today.
Thomas Krom
Member
She only had some last minute additions while in Southampton, such a carpets being placed, furniture being placed properly, and just overall the final touches.
A lot of the cane chairs were imported from Mutters en Zoons in Den Haag/The Hague in the Netherlands. The staterooms B-57/C-70 (in the Modern Dutch style with oak paneling and brass beds), B-58/C-63 (in the Louis XVI with silk damask paneling and brass beds), B-59/C-72 (in the Old Dutch style), B-60/ C-65 (in the Queen Anne style), B-63/C-74 (in the Modern Dutch style with sycamore paneling and beds) and B-64/C-67 were all designed by Mutters en Zoons as well and on the Titanic all these special staterooms on B-deck were photographed, as were all the special staterooms on C-deck were photographed on the Olympic.
Harland and Wolff had her own decorators and interior designers. The two most common period styles which could be found in the special staterooms of the Olympic class liners were even designed by Harland and Wolff. They were called the Harland and Wolff bedroom A style (more commonly known as the French style) and the Harland and Wolff bedroom B style (more commonly known as the modern style). 31 staterooms were in the Harland and Wolff bedroom B style, and 14 in the Harland and Wolff bedroom A style.
It has been incorrectly mentioned time and time again that JP Morgan financed the construction of the Olympic class liners, but this is false. As Mark Chirnside and Mike Poirier wrote down in an excellent article it was concluded that the White Star Line was not supported by IMMC's resources. Instead the IMMC was supported by the White Star Line. Construction was financed through capital raised in the United Kingdom. This article explains in detail how: White Star financed the ‘Olympic’ class ships and others by borrowing the money from largely United Kingdom-based investors, mortgaging its own fleet; White Star borrowed the money, rather than IMMC, to take advantage of its stronger financial position and lower borrowing costs; The new ships provided additional security underlying IMMC’s own debt, without increasing the money IMMC itself borrowed; Dividends paid by White Star from 1908 to 1912 helped IMMC meet its debt interest payments.
To slightly edit a famous quote from The Gipper: "There we go again".
Let us first look at the watertight subdivision the Olympic and Titanic had upon entering transatlantic service. The compartmentalization of the Olympic class liners (when the class was first introduced prior to the any configurations as a response on the sinking of the Titanic, with the extended bulkheads and such) was the equivalent of the watertight subdivision of a passenger liner from the 1920s and 1930s. The extend of the damage the Titanic received during the collision, in both absolute length and percentage of length between the perpendiculars, was something that would have sunk every post-First World War liners that had their floodable length curves published in the modern area. The ships that wouldn’t survive the damage includes the SS America (1939), the SS Europa (1928), SS Normandie (1935) and the SS Rex (1931). The watertight subdivision of the Olympic class liners in 1911 was nearly 10 years it’s time ahead.
The damage the Titanic received by the iceberg was considered during her design process as statistically unlikely and unaffordable to implement to the extend that the Safety of Life at Sea (or SOLAS) 1929 conference ships were compartmented no better than the Titanic. The biggest threat during her designing phase were ship-to-ship collisions which were far more common than collisions with icebergs. If you like I can make a detailed and chronological timeline of White Star Liners which suffered ship-to-ship collisions before the Titanic went down to show you how common it was.
According to Phillips Sims from the Transactions of the Society of Naval Architects and Marine Engineers (SNAME) the watertight subdivision of the Titanic even greatly exceeded the Safety of Life at Sea regulations back in 2003. Not to mention there is no proof that higher bulkheads were suggested, the collision bulkhead was even extended in height on advice of Board of Trade surveyor Francis Carruthers in April 1910.
And now the matter of the lifeboats. As you may know the boat deck of any White Star Liner up to that point wasn't the main deck for promenading. When the Olympic entered service she had two large promenades on A and B-deck, the later of which got nearly fully removed on the Titanic due to the fact it was barely used.
In 1894 the British Board of Trade passed the Merchant Shipping Act which required that any ship larger than 10 000 tons in gross tonnage would require a minimum of 16 lifeboats (either 16 class A lifeboats or 14 class A lifeboats and 2 class D emergency lifeboats). Since ships and their capacities were increasingly growing in size this law became outdated quite rapidly. When the Olympic and Titanic were under construction there were many talks about changing this law and the White Star Line knew of this. The then chief designer of Harland and Wolff, Alexander Carlisle, proposed the installation of brand new Welin Quadrant Davits from the Welin Davit & Engineering Company Ltd since with these davits any alteration required by law wouldn't require much modification. So under the direction of the White Star Line approved the installation of 16 pairs of Welin Quadrant Davits. The Olympic and Titanic had a total of 20 lifeboats when they entered service, 14 class A lifeboat with a capacity of 65, 4 class E Engelhardt Collapsible Lifeboats (with a capacity for 45 on the Olympic and 47 on the Titanic, the length was increased for the later by 6 inches) and 2 class D Emergency lifeboats with a capacity of 40.
I personally express the opinion, based on the evidence there is, that Mr. Ismay once again gets wrongfully scapegoated again for things he didn't do.
It isn't that hard to prove. Mr. Ismay, chief engineer Joseph Bell and Thomas Andrews Jr all had their personal notes on the Olympic during her maiden voyage (Thomas Andrews Jr was even on-board during her second west and eastbound voyage). Most of these notes thankfully survive. A class evolves and evolves based on notes for any alterations or improvements, just look at the Big Four (Celtic, Cedric, Baltic and Adriatic). From the general arrangement plans of the Titanic one can see some of the improvements made in terms of the layout. In my humble opinion the Titanic had the best general arrangement of the Olympic class.
There is another reason why these wonderful craftsmanship on wooden paneling can't be found on ships very often, and this has to do with it being a fire hazard. Take the SS Normandie as an example.
ProudScot
Olimpic rules!
Member
The entire Olimpic class was constructed at the Harland & Wolff shipyard in Belfast Ireland. The ships were built by about 3000 men, and the lead designer was Thomas Andrews (1873 - 1912). Alongside Andrews were also Alexander Carlisle and Henry Wilding. Her empty hull was completed and launched on the 31st of May, 1911 and her superstructure was finished in January of the next year (1912). She then sailed from Belfast to Queenstown and from Queenstown to Cheerbourgh. From there she went to Southampton were she was bound for her maiden voyage to New York. As we all know, she never made it to the new land. On titanic were several of the ships builders, including Thomas Andrews who sadly died that night. Other workers were allowed to travel on her for helping build her, but not all of them were allowed. White Star Lines' CEO Joseph Bruce Ismay was also on-board. He survived in collapsible B. Did you know: Only protestants were allowed to build the Olimpic class? Harland & Wolff prided themselfs in that fact.
Thomas Krom
Member
Thomas Andrews Jr wasn't the lead designer of the Olympic class. At the time when the ships were commissioned by the White Star Line he was the assistant chief designer. Alexander Carlisle, until his retirement on the 30th of June 1910, was the chief designer and he reported at the British Board of Trade inquiry that Lord William Pirrie (who was Carlisle his brother-in-law and Thomas Andrews Jr his uncle) practically designed the Olympic class liners entirely with the details, the decorations, the equipments, and general arrangements all falling under Carlisle and later Thomas Andrews Jr as he succeeded Carlisle after his retirement due to his declining health.
His name was Edward Wilding, not Henry. Here is a picture of him:
Her delivery voyage was from Belfast to Southampton, starting on the 2nd of April shortly before 21:00 and docking in Southampton in the early hours of the 4th of April. Cherbourg was her first port of call after her departure from Southampton on the 10th of April and she arrived at her last port of call, Queenstown (now known as Cobh), on the 11th of April around 11:30. She departed from Queenstown at around 13:30 to New York City.
Of the Harland and Wolff guarantee group only Thomas Andrews Jr considered himself a shipbuilder (at the census records he even described himself as such). These are the job descriptions of all 9 members of the guarantee group that were on-board during the maiden voyage:
Traveling in first class:
Thomas Andrews Jr (1873-1912): Master-shipbuilder, chief designer of Harland and Wolff and managing director of the drawing offices
Roderick Chisholm (1868-1912): Chief draughtsman of the drawing offices of Harland and Wolff
William Henry Marsh Parr (1882-1912): Assistant manager of the electrical works of Harland and Wolff
Traveling in second class:
William Campbell (1891-1912): Apprentice joiner of the joiner trade of Harland and Wolff
Alfred Fleming Cunningham (1890-1912): Apprentice engine fitter at the engine works of Harland and Wolff
Anthony Wood Frost (1874-1912): Outside foreman of the engine works of Harland and Wolff
Robert Knight (1869-1912): Leading hand engineer of the engine works of Harland and Wolff
Francis Parkes (1890-1912): Apprentice plumber of the plumbing trade of Harland and Wolff
Ennis Hastings Watson (1893-1912): Apprentice electrician of the electrical works of Harland and Wolff
Mr. Ismay, who was indeed the chairman of the White Star Line, survived in collapsible Engelhardt lifeboat C. He and William Ernest Carter were the last two who managed to get on-board, the circumstances of which are still up to debate. The lifeboat, which had a maximum capacity of 47 people, was filled with an estimated 43 occupants with the majority of them being third class passengers.
While it is true that the majority of the 15 000 workforce were either Protestant there still was a Roman Catholic minority working under the shipyard. It must be noted that during the delivery voyage there were some very insulting anti-Catholic slogans found on one of the smokeboxes of the boiler rooms. This was noted by fireman Joseph Mulholland (who always worked on delivery voyages). Thomas Andrews Jr, who was on his usual rounds, pointed to the slogans and asked Mulholland if he knew anything about them, to which Mulholland replied he did not. Thomas Andrews Jr was disgusted by the insulting slogans left and soon returned with some other crewmen to have them washed and removed.
