Which German 4 Stacker is this


Eric Longo

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Aug 13, 2004
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Hi All,
which German 4 Stacker is this - Deutschland, Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse or Kronprinz Wilhelm? The other 2 German 4 stackers had 3 masts so it is going to be one of these. Any help appreciated. My guess is Deutschland.

Thank you,
Eric

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Eric Longo

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Aug 13, 2004
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Hi again,
here is a detail of the bridge area - perhaps this will help?

Best,
Eric
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Noel F. Jones

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May 14, 2002
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For me the jury's still out pending more conclusive evidence.

The paintwork is inconclusive as between KWDG and KW but I would say it eliminates Deutschland.

KWDG and Deutschland had gaffs on both fore and main masts; I see no evidence of gaffs here nor on other pictures of KW.

The wing cabs on KWDG were white painted and are usually very prominent even with this poor quality.

The crows nest is broader on KW than on either KWDG or Deutschland and this fits in. However, it seems to be lower situated than in other pictures of KW!

Over to you...

Noel
 

Eric Longo

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Aug 13, 2004
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Hi,
that leaves 1 for KWDG, 2 for Deutschland, and your "vote" which is leaning towards KWDG or KW I think. I hope this atracts more opinions - I am at a loss
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at this point I am guessing KWDG.

Best,
Eric
 

Eric Longo

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Aug 13, 2004
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Hi,
I can post enlargements of any part of the ship in more detail - let me know what might be helpful in determining the vessel.

Best,
Eric
 
Mar 5, 2001
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OK if no one here trust me i must make a better post.....but sorry my english is not the best...so please do not wonder about some words...

Save is:

The Picture shows a German 4 Stacker at the Hoboken Piers in New York. The reason why you can say it is a German Liner are that distance between funnel 2 and 3 is greater than the distance between 1 and 2 or 3 and 4 - This was only by the German 4 Stacker.


The German 4 Stackers are:

Deutschland (Hapag)
Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse (North German Lloyd)
Kronprinz Wilhelm (North German Lloyd)
Kaiser Wilhelm II (North German Lloyd)
Kronprinzessin Cecilie (North German Lloyd)

From this we can delete:

Kaiser Wilhelm II (North German Lloyd)
Kronprinzessin Cecilie (North German Lloyd)

because they hat 3 masts.

so we had only:

Deutschland (Hapag)
Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse (North German Lloyd)
Kronprinz Wilhelm (North German Lloyd)

The Deutschland has completly differend decks and a completly different painting. So that we can delete them...


now we had only:

Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse (North German Lloyd)
Kronprinz Wilhelm (North German Lloyd)

The KW had differences on the side to the KWDG and on her Stern are not the same constructions as on the picture from Eric.

I have marked the three interesting thinks on Erics picture...

1. The Two masts
2. the Space between Funnel 2 and 3
3. The constructions on the Stern

so....it is definitly the KWDG

:)

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Noel F. Jones

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May 14, 2002
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But where, gentlemen, are your wing cabs? Where are your gaffs?

(These diagnostics are getting to be like algebraic equations!)

Pending further evidence for me she has to be Kronprinz Wilhelm. Sorry Eric (and Thorsten).

Noel
 
Apr 20, 2004
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Here's another opinion
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The base of the mainmast is clearly obscured by several buff cowl ventilators, indicating that these ventilators are behind the mast. According to the images and information I have on these ships, neither KWDG or KW had buff ventilators in this position. Only the Deutchsland had them. Also, one can see in the image that this ship has no enclosed bridge wings, again, pointing to the Deutschland.
The deck arrangement at the stern is not clear in the phot. Thpose white areas could be canvas on the railings or something else. It could be the KWDG, but it could also be Deutschland.

My money is on Deutschland. I'm quite certain it's this ship.
 

Jeremy Lee

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Jun 12, 2003
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>>The Deutschland has completly differend decks and a completly different painting. So that we can delete them<<

Can anyone clarify Thorsten's claim? Whats the difference?
 
Apr 20, 2004
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John Maxtone Graham's Book "The Only Way to Cross" has a picture of Deutschland near the beginning, and as I remember it, it's shown at more or less the same angle as Eric Longo's picture above. A comparison of the two may help to clear up the confusion. Unfortunately I don't have the book to hand, so can't myself check it.
 

Eric Longo

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Aug 13, 2004
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Hi,
I see a lot of things in the 2 photos linked below that are in my photo - among them the size relationships of the stacks and placement of the rings on them, the details on the foreward mast, the decks and paintwork. From what I can see in other photographs all 3 liners in question have vents where Jason pointed them out, but rather different stacks, masts etc. The foremast details on the 2 photos linked match up near perfectly in terms of size and spacing when compared. Notice wing cabs are not visible in the photo top left in the link, but the "trimwork" under the Bridge does match. Also, the height of the Crows Nest is a help when comparing - I think it might appear a bit low because we are not afforded any view of its base. More opinions welcome
happy.gif
I still think KWDG for now, based on the number of things visible in these 2 photographs (upper left and upper right in the link).

http://www.lostliners.com/Liners/German_Lloyd/kaiser_wilhelmgrsse.html

Best and thanks! I Look forward to more opinions.
Eric Longo
 
Apr 20, 2004
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The funny thing is that in Eric's photo, one can see what looks like the port bridge wing protruding from the side of the ship, without a cab.

However, in Eric's link to lostliners, the picture at the top left of KWDG has the bridge wing obscured with something dark. Perhaps this is the case in Eric's photo also?

http://www.lostliners.com/Liners/German_Lloyd/kaiser_wilhelmgrsse.html

The structure on the stern certainly looks like KWDG, but the buff vents are still a puzzle. My pictures show that only Deutschland had buff ones, the others were white and smaller.

I am now uncertain.
 

Eric Longo

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Aug 13, 2004
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Hi,
the starboard wing cab is not visible on the the left linked photo either - and it is apparently not obscured by anything. However, there may be a wingcab in my photo after all - there appears to be something going on in the scans I have highlighted here with arrows - for example - it appears to be throwing a shadow of of a wing cab. After looking at some other photos of these liners at this site I see more in common with KWDG than either other vessel - so far. Even the angle of the bottom of the Crows Nest seems exactly the same, and its width compared to the mast and details along its height. There is also a distinctive line of portholes visible on both vessels in the same area in relation to other features. I have marked all the things I am looking at in comparison with the 2 linked images.
Best,
Eric



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Eric Longo

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Aug 13, 2004
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Hi All,
here is a blow-up of the area where the wing cab would be - there appears to be something going on there, and as noted in the other scan it does cast an odd shadow - as if there was a cab there. The white portion on the side of the wing bridge does appear to go between the two light verticals, suggesting some depth (bottom arrow).

Best,
Eric

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(C) Eric Longo Image Collection 2005
 

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