Who are the surviving passengers on this photo


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Ben Holme

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Hi Hildo,

If Capt. Crosby had any desire to board a life boat, I'm sure 1st Officer Murdoch would have allowed him to board boat #7 with his wife and daughter. As it happened, Crosby was among those issuing reassurances to his fellow passengers that the boat would not sink - at least not for several hours.
Another elderly passenger, Frank M. Warran (63), had the oppertunity to board boat #5 with his wife but neglected to do so. In fact, he was the only male passenger not to board that particular boat with his wife.
As to the actions of the two eldest 1st class passengers I cannot say. Ramon Artagaveytia (72) was somewhat of an enigma on board during the final hours and George B. Goldschmidt (71) even more so.

Hope this helps

Warm regards
Ben
 

Hildo Thiel

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Hi Ben,

Thanks for your message. I think that many of the older men, not wanted to go in the boats, because they not wanted to leave before the younger men. Mrs. Warren thought that her husband was in the boat, but he wasn't. Very sad. About Captain Crosby, I have understand that he was not near lifeboat 7, at the moment this boat was filled with passengers. He was gone below decks with Mr. Lambert Williams. His wife, daughter and Mrs. Taylor refused to go, but Mr. Taylor got them to go in the boat. And Mrs. Crosby, Miss Crosby and Mr. and Mrs. Taylor left with this boat. Some older men left with their wives: Mr. Frolicher was one of them.

Regards,

Hildo
 

Ben Holme

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Hi Hildo,

Sorry, the detail about Crosby being below decks with Fletcher L-W at the launching time seemed to have eluded me completely while posting. Apologies.

It seems a possibility that Warren stayed on board because he remembered his friend, Engelhart Ostby was still below deck. If Warran entered boat #5, Ostby, when he surfaced, would have had no idea as to the fate of his daughter and his friends.

Maxmilliam Frolicher-Stehli did indeed board boat #5 with his wife and daughter. Every man in the vicinity (apart form Warran and Stengel) boarded that particular boat with their wives/daughters. I believe Mr. Frolicher (64)was the oldest man to survive!! Not a statistic I would ever want attached to my name!

You could argue that Mark Fortune (64) was refused permission to join the female members of his family on boat #10. On the other hand, he may have elected to remain on board with his son Charles. The actions of the two men are unknown after the departure of the women.

Regards
Ben
 

Hildo Thiel

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Hi Ben,

It seems that many first class men could have enter a lifeboat, but most of them decided to stay on Titanic. Mr. Stengel put his wife in lifeboat 5 and then got the chance to enter lifeboat 1, with the Duff Gordons and others. Mr. Dodge another husband who put his wife and little son in lifeboat 5 and left behind on Titanic, but he was put in lifeboat 13, by steward Ray. The Family Dodge where aboard Titanic on advice of Ray, I have understand. So he found it his duty to save Mr. Dodge. He left Titanic after his wife and son and he was aboard Carpathia before his wife and son. And little Washington saw his father aboard Carpathia, his mother did not see her husband. But little Washington didn't tell his mother that and kept her away of her husband for a joke. But Steward Ray reunited the pair. and I believe little Washington was a little bit angry, because Steward Ray, spoiled his joke.

Regards,

Hildo
 

Ben Holme

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Hi Hildo,

I remember reading something about Washington Jr's cheeky antics aboard Carpathia. Dodge was the third man to refuse a place on boat #5. The loading of the next starboard boat, number #3 was very similar - most joined their families but Hays, Davidson, Roebling and Case remained on board.
With the port boats it is more difficult to establish whether or not the men there had any desire to board a lifeboat. Astor wished to join his wife but Walter Douglas eventually decided to remain on board - not that he had much of a choice.

Regards
Ben
 

Hildo Thiel

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Hi Ben,

Men on portside were not so lucky as men on the starboard side. But some men were allowed in the starboard boats. Lowe took second class passengers Charles Eugene Williams with him in lifeboat 14. I understand that Captain Smith put a young man in lifeboat 6 and that Major Peuchen was allowed in the same boat for rowing. But most of the men escaped on starboard side.

About the couples in the lifeboats on starboard side: The Duff Gordon in lifeboat 1, Mr. and Mrs. Dick, Mr. and Mrs. Harper and Mr. and Mrs. Spedden in lifeboat 3, Mr. and Mrs. Beckwith, Mr. and Mrs. Chambers, Dr. and Mrs. Frauenthal, Dr. and Mrs. Frolicher, Mr. and Mrs. Goldenberg, Mr. and Mrs. Harder and Mr. and Mrs. Kimball in lifeboat 5, Mr. and Mrs. Bishop, Mr. and Mrs. Snyder and Mr. and Mrs. Taylor with lifeboat 7. Mr. and Mrs. Caldwell with lifeboat 13.

In lifeboat 11 was Mrs. Schabert and her brother Mr. Mock. In lifeboat 15 Mrs. Hirvonen, her daughter, her brother, Mr. Lindquist, Mr. Abrahamson a friend of him and I understand that Mrs. Turkula was with them in that boat too.

So the figures say it, you had a better chance to be saved as men on starboard than on portside.

Regard,

Hildo
 

Ben Holme

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Feb 11, 2001
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Hi Hildo,

Indeed, a man's life could depend on what side of the deck he happened to be on at the time.

In addition tom the names you mentioned, we could include Karl Behr and Helen Newsom as a type of couple.

Arguably, some of the greatest heroes that night were the men on the starboard side who refused a seat in a lifeboat with their wives despite being given the oppotunity by the officer in charge, and subsequently perishing. Messrs Hays, Davidson, Warran, Silvey, and Goldsmith come into this catergory. Others, including Antoni Yasbeck were turned away despite being at a boat on the starboard side (collapsibe C).

Best Regards
Ben
 

Hildo Thiel

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Nov 5, 2000
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Hi Ben,

Sorry for the late answer. I was very busy with other things, problems at work mainly. And this weekend I wasn't at home much so I had not much time to spend at my computer. (so this week I have some extra free days, It's holiday overhere so some of the part-timers could work for us)

Yes, your right about Mr. Behr and Miss Newson, we can include them with the pairs who left with lifeboat 5.

Others who left from starboardside and who we can include are Mrs. Greenfield and her son, Mrs. Cardeza and her son, the manservants of Mr. Cardeza and Mr. Harper.

Regards,

Hildo
 
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