Zhang Beichen
Member
I mean, apart from Thomas Andrews, Edward Wielding, Alexander Carlisle, who else took part in this great project as a designer?
Ajmal Dar
Member
I read that a total of 150 designers worked on the Titanic. Obviously, the names you mentioned were some of the main players.
Jason D. Tiller
Staff member
Moderator
Member
A minor correction, Zhang. It's Edward Wilding, not Wielding.
Zhang Beichen
Member
Could you please provide an accessible reference? That'll be a great help.
Ajmal Dar
Member
Hi Zhan,
I'm pretty sure that I read it in the book "Building The Titanic" by Rod Green but it was a simple one-line comment with zero supporting evidence.
The much more scholary Ladies and Gentlemen on ET will have more accurate information, and the book Titanic - Ship Magnificent should have the information you need.
In reality, as you are aware, it would be imposdible for say, two, three or four men, like BI, TA, AC & LP to be able to design a Leviathan at 882 ft 9 inches long, 92 ft wide, 46,000 tons etc. The aforementioned will have overseen the design and have performed some aspects of the design (TA & AC) but the intricate design details of the Olympic class design must have been performed by many more less senior designers.
That sir, is my humble opinion.
Best regards,
Ajmal Dar
Nottingham UK
Thomas Krom
Member
Hello everyone,
I hope we are all doing well today. Harland and Wolff had three drawing offices, two identical halls at the main offices (one for commercial vessels and one for Admiralty built vessels) and one drawing office at the Engine works.
The managing director of the drafting department during the designing of the Olympic class liners was Thomas Andrews Jr, who since 1904 held the position of assistant chief designer (a term he disliked) along with many other responsibilities. The chief designer of the drawing offices since 1888 was Alexander Montgomery Carlisle, who was the brother-in-law of the company’s ruling chairman Lord William Pirrie. When Carlisle retired in June 1910 due to his declining health Thomas Andrews Jr succeeded him as chief designer. Thomas Andrews Jr his successor as assistant chief designer became Edward Wilding, who also succeeded him in 1912 after his death in the disaster.
Lord Pirrie played an instrumental role in designing the Olympic class liners as Carlisle told at the British Board of Trade Inquiry. Mr. Ismay and the White Star Line directors as clients had their opinions as well.
There were many draughtsmen working at the drawing office which were led by chief draughtsman Roderick Chisholm and his assistant William James Smith. Chisholm unfortunately died in the Titanic disaster too. Also working for the drawing offices was James Thompson Hamilton, Thomas Andrews Jr his secretary (he succeeded Edward Ritchie). Here follows a list of more notable personnel working at the drawing office:
Arthur Moffatt: naval architect
Henry P Harland: draughtsman
Archibald Hastings: draughtsman
Samuel J Donnelly: draughtsman
Ambrose Willis: Draughtsman
William Armstrong: draughtsman
Weston Grimshaw: draughtsman
Thomas A Smith: draughtsman
Henry Harland is a noticeable name. Not only was he the nephew of Edward Harland, but back in 1905 he was after the hand of Helen “Nellie” Reilly Barbour, just as Thomas Andrews Jr was. She chose Thomas and they married on the 24th of June 1908 and on the 27th of November 1910 they welcomed their only child Elizabeth Law Barbour-Andrews into the world. When Thomas died, Nellie remarried Henry in 1917.
I hope this offers some help.
Kind regards.
Thomas
I hope we are all doing well today. Harland and Wolff had three drawing offices, two identical halls at the main offices (one for commercial vessels and one for Admiralty built vessels) and one drawing office at the Engine works.
The managing director of the drafting department during the designing of the Olympic class liners was Thomas Andrews Jr, who since 1904 held the position of assistant chief designer (a term he disliked) along with many other responsibilities. The chief designer of the drawing offices since 1888 was Alexander Montgomery Carlisle, who was the brother-in-law of the company’s ruling chairman Lord William Pirrie. When Carlisle retired in June 1910 due to his declining health Thomas Andrews Jr succeeded him as chief designer. Thomas Andrews Jr his successor as assistant chief designer became Edward Wilding, who also succeeded him in 1912 after his death in the disaster.
Lord Pirrie played an instrumental role in designing the Olympic class liners as Carlisle told at the British Board of Trade Inquiry. Mr. Ismay and the White Star Line directors as clients had their opinions as well.
There were many draughtsmen working at the drawing office which were led by chief draughtsman Roderick Chisholm and his assistant William James Smith. Chisholm unfortunately died in the Titanic disaster too. Also working for the drawing offices was James Thompson Hamilton, Thomas Andrews Jr his secretary (he succeeded Edward Ritchie). Here follows a list of more notable personnel working at the drawing office:
Arthur Moffatt: naval architect
Henry P Harland: draughtsman
Archibald Hastings: draughtsman
Samuel J Donnelly: draughtsman
Ambrose Willis: Draughtsman
William Armstrong: draughtsman
Weston Grimshaw: draughtsman
Thomas A Smith: draughtsman
Henry Harland is a noticeable name. Not only was he the nephew of Edward Harland, but back in 1905 he was after the hand of Helen “Nellie” Reilly Barbour, just as Thomas Andrews Jr was. She chose Thomas and they married on the 24th of June 1908 and on the 27th of November 1910 they welcomed their only child Elizabeth Law Barbour-Andrews into the world. When Thomas died, Nellie remarried Henry in 1917.
I hope this offers some help.
Kind regards.
Thomas
Zhang Beichen
Member
Thank you, Thomas. I'll be very grateful for that.
BTW, I remember that Carlisle was responsible for the design of lifeboat and davit, it was he who persuaded the head of H&W and WSL to replace the traditional inefficient radial davit with more-efficient Welin Quadrant Davit.
Ajmal Dar
Member
Fabulous answer for all of us who don't know these facts. THANK-YOU.
Mike Spooner
Member
Thanks for your information on drawing offices and one for Admiralty built vessels. Looking through the list of H&W built ships I can only find two ships for the Admiralty before the start of the first world war.
1. Yard No 131 HMS Algerine gunboat launch 1879
2. Yard No 360 HMS Enchantress Yacht! launch 1903
Do you think that was enough to justify a drawing office for those two ships? Or was it more of the case for the Admiralty drawing office came about for the war effort.
Thomas Krom
Member
Hello Mike,
How are you? I hope you’ve been doing well.
While you are correct that at the time only two ships were built specifically for the British Admirality many other vessels built by Harland and Wolff (including White Star Liners as the RMS Teutonic, RMS Majestic and RMS Oceanic) were built to be refitted in armoured merchant cruisers in case a war broke out with reinforced decks for canons and such. Some warships were also refitted at Harland and Wolff too, such as the HMS Hermes. When I get home I’ll show you a picture of the drawing office of the Admirality.
Kind regards,
Thomas
