Who is Mr T R Munday


Jul 15, 2009
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I found an article in the French press referring to one Mr. Munday, who lost his life in the Titanic. The article states that the man had been King George's 'translator' when he was a cadet on board the Britannia. King George is said to have sent a telegram to Munday's family but I could not identify Mr. Munday. Can anyone help?
Thanks, Olivier
 

Bob Godfrey

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Nov 22, 2002
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A remote possibility is Herr Muller or Mueller, who was the ship's interpreter and did not survive. I've seen the name Munday referred to, incidentally, as 'an old Southampton name'.
 
Jan 5, 2001
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Is it possible that the Mr Munday was Tyrell William Cavendish? His aunt was Mrs Emily Mundy, and Tyrell was related to the Baron Waterpark. One of Tyrell's cousins was a lady-in-waiting to Queen Victoria, and it may be that others members of the family had served the Royal family.Just a thought.
 
Jul 15, 2009
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Hi all, thanks for sharing your thoughts with me. This 'Mr. Munday' is not easy to identify, it seems... Mr. Müller, the 3rd class interpreter, was German, then I do not believe 'Mr. Munday' to be referring to him. The French press was absolutely unable to imagine such a story, it was picked up somewhere else, so I believe this story to be true... And yet, no valid thread no unravel the mystery... The Cavendish story is fascinating. The name does not match but 'Mr Munday' could have been related to Mrs. Mundy in the original (English?) article and the wired information from London or whatever other city in the world to Paris made of him the mutant 'Mr. Munday'... Yes, as far as this story goes, I thing that Craig is nearer the truth. Where could we try to check all this?
Thanks for sharing your opinions!
Olivier
 
Dec 2, 2000
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Easley South Carolina
>>The French press was absolutely unable to imagine such a story,...<<

Ohhhhhhhhh...I wouldn't make that assumption about the media, French or otherwise. Yellow journalism was hardly the sort of thing that the American press or Fleet Street in the UK has ever had a monopoly on. Nor was even the best outfit immune to being snookered by a fraud. With the trouble there was in getting accurate passenger/crew lists together, verifying a valid claim could be a real headache.

>>it was picked up somewhere else, so I believe this story to be true... <<

Well, maybe. The problem in this case is that there was so much mis-information going around that the reporters in even the most respectable papers would have a real problem sorting out those who really traveled on the Titanic from any number of imposters and fraudulant claimants who were running around loose.

My bet is that if there's a real person behind this name, that this individual was traveling under an assumed name or that we have here another case of a name being recorded inaccurately on the passenger list. You might find reading a copy of Debbie Beavis's "Who Sailed On Titanic" to be an eye opener in this regard. She does a nice job of spelling out the problems.
 
Jul 15, 2009
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Hi Michael, thanks for your interesting reply. I was not hinting at any kind of respectability in the French press, they proved more than was useful that they could print anything. I was just thinking that this Munday story, including young King George as a cadet on board the royal yacht and so on was too much to imagine for a French reporter. Our reporters in 1912, as far as I can see in our papers, had no imagination at all, and I doubt that one of them could make up the story of one Mr Munday, interpreter to the King, on the royal yacht....... This would have been too much to ask from a French reporter I think. I am sure that they simply received a wire from a correspondant who was just sending the news in a foreign newspaper and that most of the info got stuck into the wire and got lost and resulted in this Munday story. I am sure there is somebody real behind this name, whoever he is...
Shall we find some day?
Olivier
PS: how do you say 'Stead' in English, sounding like 'steady' or 'real'? An English pal of mine thinks that 'real' is the proper way.
 

Bob Godfrey

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English people (like the TV comedy character Hyacinth Bucket) often reserve the right to pronounce their own name any way they like, but Stead is normally Stead as in dead, not Steed as in 'The Avengers'.
 
Dec 2, 2000
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>>I was just thinking that this Munday story, including young King George as a cadet on board the royal yacht and so on was too much to imagine for a French reporter. Our reporters in 1912, as far as I can see in our papers, had no imagination at all, and I doubt that one of them could make up the story of one Mr Munday, interpreter to the King, on the royal yacht....... This would have been too much to ask from a French reporter I think.<<

Too much to make up? I wouldn't make that assumption either. Just as likely however is simply a lack of critical thinking faculties or any real desire to check the facts. Perhaps a combination of the two. Put yourself in the editor's position; If you were handed a sensational story that would sell a lot of copy, would you spoil it by checking the facts?

Some wouldn't, and it's always easier to bury a retraction somewhere on the back pages.
 
Jul 15, 2009
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Yes, Michael, it sounds relevant...
I couldn't find the fact quoted in any other paper than 'La Presse' (18 April 1912). I can't explain why as so many other infos were published by lots of papers over the weeks. 'La Presse' published full columns of infos picked up in other papers, both in France and abroad but the Munday story is not to be found anywhere else (as far as i know anyway).
I hope we'll identify Munday someday.
Thanks for your help.
Olivier
 
Dec 2, 2000
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You may not have been able to find anything because the story was an exclusive, or it was a red herring (There were a lot of those) or the person that this story involved was in fact so obscure that he just didn't leave a lot out there to be found. The passage of 92 years won't be helpful either since anyone who would have first hand knowladge of where this started is long dead.

In light of that Olivier, I'll wish you all the best in your attempts to run this thing to ground.
 
Dec 29, 2006
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There have, from time to time, been requests for details of "missing" passengers or crew. Although I have probably asked this question before, does anyone know anything about George Moran, supposedly a publican from Abingdon (then in Berkshire, now in Oxfordshire), who is mentioned in local press reports but does not appear on the official passenger list? Is it possible that "George Moran" is the same as "Daniel Moran".
 

Dave Gittins

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Daniel Moran was an Irish emigrant. He gets a mention in my book as the purchaser of tickets for Patrick Ryan and others. This was important in the British civil claims. He obviously wasn't English.

There's a James Moran in third class, but I know nothing of him.
 

Bob Godfrey

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George Moran was well known in Abingdon as landlord of the White Horse Inn, and like many publicans could possibly tell a good story. He claimed to have been a steward on the Titanic, but nobody of that name appears in the crew listings.
 
Dec 29, 2006
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I am aware that the Morans were Irish emigrants, but their ethnicity has no relevance to my question. Daniel Moran could have worked in an Abingdon pub, or even been the landlord although, at 27, he may have been considered too young to run a bar. I have just checked the article which mentions a George Moran on the Titanic, and it claims that he was a "steward". However, this is not particularly helpful because he does not appear on the crew list.
 
Dec 29, 2006
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Bob,

Thank you for that information. Unfortunately, he George Moran story has been printed in the local press on more than one occasion, and because it has turned up in The Oxford Mail it now seems to be an accepted "fact". As a matter of interest, do you know if he was of Irish origin?
 
Dec 6, 2000
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Hello Dave,

James Moran did not sail. On this web-site see: The Unknown Adult by Senan Molony.

BT 100/260 contains this note:
120724.jpg
with an "X" back to the name of James Moran


Hope you are keeping well. With my best wishes.
Regards,
Lester