Who Sailed on the Titanic

Jason D. Tiller

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Dec 3, 2000
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I just added this book to my collection. I've only skimmed through it, but it definitely is well researched along with some great photos. I agree, it is a book that any Titanic researcher should own.

Job well done Debbie!

Best regards,

Jason
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Aug 29, 2002
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I too am impressed with Debbie's book. However, I now know that my uncle William Gillespie DID SAIL ON TITANIC. The evidence from Abbeyleix is overwhelming (thanks to Senan Molony). I've also contacted the Church of Ireland and other sources for more info... await response. Will continue the investigation to find out more about the Gillespie family in Ireland. I'm grateful to ET members for all their help. Who knows, I may yet become a Titanic buff....already have 2 books... am fascinated by the nefarious characters (gamblers, etc.) so I'll probably be doing more reading on that subject as well. Best wishes, Carolyn
 
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Trent Pheifer

Guest
Hey Debbie,

I was curious as to what your book was like, is it list, biography, or documents? I think I am going to buy it, but was just curious as to what it was like the format and what info was in the book. It sounds like it's a great book!

-Trent
 

Henry Loscher

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Mar 6, 2003
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Palm Harbor, Florida
Hello Debbie,

Your book has been a valuable addition to my collection.

For years I have read that the owners of the Atlantic liners made their money mainly on 3rd class passengers. Your data on the cost of passage for the Titanic yielded quite a surprise for me. The first class revenue was greater than from the 2nd class, 3rd class and cross channel passengers combined. The first class revenue was twice as much as from third class! I could only approximate the revenue as the chart had indicated refunds, but there was no way of telling what unit the revenue was in. Was it pounds, shillings or pence? Do you have the answer?

Anyway, the total revenue was just under 20,000 pounds, approximately $100,000.

Thank you for a very interesting book. You are to be congratulated.

Henry Loscher
Palm Harbor, FL
 
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Tracey McIntire

Guest
Hi Henry--

Good to see you on the board at last! Looking forward to your comments on all things Titanic!

For all the others here--I recommend catching one of Henry's Titanic talks--they are excellent.

Tracey McIntire
(formerly of Va. Beach)
 
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Virginia Dearing

Guest
> Could someone tell me if I am getting through with my messages. I don't seem to be having any luck. Thank you. Phjlly43
 
Dec 6, 2000
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Henry,

The figures Debbie gives are in pounds, shillings and pence. 12 pennies made one shilling. 20 shillings made 1 pound.

I hope that helps,
Lester
 

Kyrila Scully

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Apr 15, 2001
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Debbie, I know how you feel about knowing when to stop. I did a similar book, concentrating on the survivors listed by lifeboat occupancy, and the more I worked on it the more I wanted to put in it. But if you're going to revise your book with nore goodies and it will be SOON, I want to wait for the 2nd edition! I look forward to it. Keep us posted.

Kyrila
 

Bob Godfrey

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Nov 22, 2002
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This isn't the right thread to develop this, but let's remember that revenue isn't the same thing as profit. In the case of the Titanic, revenue is income from ticket sales and freight charges. Since the cheapest First Class tickets cost about 4 times as much as a Third Class ticket, the revenue will obviously be higher. But this must be balanced against costs before profit levels can be determined in the 3 Classes. And the costs of transporting and sustaining a relatively small contingent of passengers requiring First Class treatment and occupying a very large proportion of the ship's interior volume were much, much higher than for Third Class. The traditional view that the cheaper tickets provided the greater profit is based on this kind of reasoning.
 

Henry Loscher

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Mar 6, 2003
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Thanks for your thoughts. I had come to the same conclusion, but for some reason, probably senility, I did not include your conclusions in my thoughts. Revenue does not equal profit. Basic Economics 101.
 

debbie beavis

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Jun 10, 2006
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Kyrila

Thank you to you and others for the kind comments about the book in this and other forums on ET. Nice to know I have a sympathiser regarding when to stop and when to publish! A second edition should be on the cards anytime.. 3000 were published and almost all gone, but I am in the hands of the publisher of course. A few hiccups happened in the main list in Who Sailed On Titanic? . My Excel spreadsheets had to be transcribed into Word, then on into a professional web publishing program. A few names evidently slipped out of line - I zapped what I could but... infuriating. All should be corrected in the next version.
 

Henry Loscher

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Mar 6, 2003
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Debbie,

I have used your data in the Contract section to come up with revenue figures. I have one problem however. There is a column indicating refunds, but there is no way of knowing what the unit of refund was. Was it pounds, shillings or pence? Can you help me here?

Thanks, Henry Loscher
 

Bob Godfrey

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Nov 22, 2002
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Henry, in case Debbie isn't online I think the rebates must be in pounds, as I note one of them for a 1st Class passenger has the figure 5 followed by the remark 'restaurant rebate' (ie the passenger elected to buy meals separately in the a la carte restaurant), which, as far as I can recall, was generally five pounds or thereabouts.
 

Bob Godfrey

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Nov 22, 2002
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In connection with claims for compensation in the US Courts, White Star were required to provide the revenue figures. The 'net passage money' from ticket sales was declared as follows:

1 Class ... £10,193 6s 10d
2 Class ... £ 3,014 15s 5d
3 Class ... £ 4,469 9s 9d

Total ... £17,677 12s ($85,733)
 

Henry Loscher

Member
Mar 6, 2003
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Palm Harbor, Florida
> Bob,

Thanks again. I analyzed the figures in Debbie's Book and the results are as follows:

1st Class 10811 pounds 5 shillings and 11 pence 2nd Class 3198 pounds 16 shillings and 4 pence 3rd Class 5128 pounds 5 shillings and 6 pence Cross Channel 115 pounds

Grand Total 19253 pounds 7 shillings and 9 pence. or about $96267

Of course this does not include the refunds as I am still awaiting confirmation of this from Debbie. Nevertheless you have been very helpful and I thank you.

Henry Loscher
 

Bob Godfrey

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Nov 22, 2002
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You are very welcome, Henry. There is also an official figure for 'gross passenger money' which comes out as $94,581.90 - very close to your own calculation. I'm not sure what adjustments account for the differences between 'net' and 'gross' revenue, but I don't think the refunds and rebates alone would account for it.

Best regards,
Bob
 

Henry Loscher

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Mar 6, 2003
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Hi Bob,

With regard to the refunds which you think may be in pounds. I don't think that is true. There is a 3rd class passenger, Leo Zumcreman whose ticket cost 7 pounds and 17 shillings. He had a refund of 6. Surely that can't be pounds, as it would make his passage costing 1 pound 17 shillings. It must be shillings. Another 3rd class passenger had a refund of 6 for a ticket costing 8 pounds 1 shilling. Two 1st class passenger travelling in a group costing 69 pounds 11 shillings had refunds of 8 and 4. These could be pounds, One refund had a note that the refund was a restaurant rebate. I am inclined to think these rebates were more likely to be shillings. But who knows. I hope that Debbie Beavis can throw some light on this.

Best regards, Henry
 

debbie beavis

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Jun 10, 2006
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Hi Bob and Henry,

This is probably going to be the most unhelpful reply you could ever get, and I'm sorry - I am away in the Australian Outback for six months without even a copy of the book let alone all my original material including the contract ticket list. Certainly the amounts on the contract ticket list are in £SD, ie pounds shillings and pence ..I transcribed (hopefully) exactly what the White Star Line clerk wrote down, in the same column as he wrote it but I daren't answer specifics such as Leo Zumcreman (Zimmerman). There are a few corrections written on the list, but in the main it seems to have been accepted. As I say in the book however, in several cases (regarding whether or not passengers sailed or purchased tickets) there may be evidence of rather lax accounting. Whether or not you have exposed more problems with the ticket list I don't know.. I didn't attempt to make the figures add up or I'd still be doing it now
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I just endeavoured to record what I saw. I am sorry, I realise this isn't helping much. Certainly if you have a photocopy of the original ticket list, you would be able to see exactly what I saw.

Regards

Debbie