Who Sailed on the Titanic

Dec 2, 2000
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Easley South Carolina
Debbie, you did the very best with what you had, and it wasn't always trustworthy. Lousy penmanship on the part of a clerk in some dusty office couldn't have been helpful. I can't even begin to imagine the detective work you had to do to nail any of it down.
 

Bob Godfrey

Member
Nov 22, 2002
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Debbie, let me second that - your research is meticulous and your book indispensable. This little problem with the refund amounts is possibly due to printing restrictions, as the £sd columns (for the refunds only) have been merged into one and it isn't clear what the units were in each case. Perhaps someone who has a copy of the original contract ticket list (Lester?) could help Henry to complete his calculations.

Bob
 

debbie beavis

Member
Jun 10, 2006
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Hi Bob

Glad you find the book helpful. I really wish I could have been more help, but anyone with the ticket list will be able to check. Lester certainly has a copy - this I know, because while I was researching the book there was a long saga between me and the US archives with them telling me that my part list (as it turned out to be) was all they had, while others before and after me had obtained more... or sometimes even less. Thanks to the generosity of Hermann Soldner and Lester Mitcham, I was able to obtain the whole list. It was a most odd situation, but I think it is now resolved, and anyone writing now for a copy of the whole list will receive exactly that. I am sure Lester will come back with this answer but he's not answering his email at the moment.

Debbie
 

Bob Godfrey

Member
Nov 22, 2002
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Hallo, Debbie,

You could not possibly be more helpful to the Titanic community than you already have by providing us with a key reference work. Hope you're enjoying the sunshine in Oz!

Best regards,
Bob
 

Henry Loscher

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Mar 6, 2003
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Hello Debbie,

Thanks for your reply. I do appreciate the immense difficulties you experienced in writing your book. I am very grateful for the information you supplied in the book and it has a very special place in my library of things Titanic.

Thanks Debbie, Regards, Henry Loscher
 
Aug 29, 2002
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Hi Debbie - it seems my earlier message must've disappeared?? Just wanted you to know that I've recently received docs from Senan showing that the Irish police in 1926 conducted a special investigation re William Henry Gillespie. This new information has established that my uncle was indeed on board the Titanic when she sank in 1912. Good luck with the revised edition of your book. Carolyn in Sacramento
 
Aug 29, 2002
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Senan Molony has posted 4 letters re Gillespie to ET, which he found in the Irish Archives showing the Irish police conducted an investigation in 1926 as result of an inquiry from a family member. The police report definitely concludes that Uncle Will went down with Titanic.I am very grateful for Senan's excellent research and for the help of ET. There have been a number of cases documented in local newspapers of people who died on Titanic but their bodies were never found or identified (SanFrancisco Examiner,etc.). All the best, Carolyn
 
Dec 6, 2000
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Hello Carolyn,

In light of what Debbie had initially posted I have been looking at the Contact Ticket List. Rather than just post about your uncle I am pasting below a copy of a draft I have just complied. It seems to me that your uncle had all but £2 of his passage money refunded.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------
Looking at the Contract Ticket List we can see that a number of passengers received refunds. - 4 of which seem to represent a total or near total refund of the fare paid. In the case of 3 of them that has led one Titanic researcher to ask: "Did They Sail"?

1] Robert Daniel paid an Ocean Fare of £30.10/-. He also received a refund of £30.10/-. Out to the right hand-side is a note which reads: £30.10/- to be coll by Purser. - No problem. Clearly documented; was on board and survived.

2] Wm. Gillespie ["1" adult] paid an Ocean Fare of £13. The Refund column has £11 in it. The column headed Nett Total Passage Money contains two amounts £11 with a line ruled through it; and £2. - Why did William Gillespie receive a refund of £11?

3] Marius Petersen ["1" adult] paid an Ocean Fare of £8.1/-. The Refund column has £6.5/- in it. A column headed Commissions contains the amount of 6/-. - Although other passengers also show Forwarding of 6/-, no such amount shows for Petersen. As with Gillespie the column headed Nett Total Passage Money contains two amounts £6.5/- with a line ruled through it; and £1.10/-. - Why did Marius Petersen receive a refund of £6.5/-?

All 3 of these passengers appear on the White Star Passenger List and in the case of Gillespie and Petersen on Lists of Passengers who died.

4] Frederick Miles ["1" adult] paid an Ocean Fare of £7.5/-. The Refund column has £5.19/- in it. A column headed Forwarding contains the amount of 6/-. The column headed Nett Total Passage Money contains two amounts £5.19/- with a line ruled through it; and £1. - Why did Frederick Miles receive a refund of £5.19/-?

Here the answer seems to be because he "did not sail". As far as I am aware the name of Frederick Miles appears on only one other White Star Line document. What I will refer to as the Passenger Boarding List for Southampton. - BT 27/78B. - Might he be:
Name: Miles, Frederick Wm.
Date of Arrival: May 11, 1912
Age on Arrival: 44y
Gender: M
Maritial Status: M
Ship of Travel: Cedric
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England, UK

It has been suggested to me that Marius Petersen may be the same person as the man who arrived in New York on the 15th of May:
Name: Petersen, Marius
Ethnicity: Danish, Scand.
Place of Residence: Over Karley, Denmark
Date of Arrival: May 15, 1912
Age on Arrival: 24y
Gender: M
Maritial Status: S
Ship of Travel: United States
Port of Departure: Copenhagen City, Copenhagen, Denmark

But without added information about the Marius Petersen who was booked to sail on the Titanic I cannot decide. - As far as I am aware no monies were paid from the Titanic Relief Fund for a Marius Petersen.
The mother of William Gillespie [P44] received a payment of £75 from the Titanic Relief Fund.

Does anyone have any thoughts about the Gillespie and Petersen refunds?
 

Henry Loscher

Member
Mar 6, 2003
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> Just some further information about William Henry Gillespie. His wife, Eliza received 75 pounds from the British Relief Fund. She also received a 5 shilling weekly allowance. Source of the information is "TITANIC PEOPE" - Criaig Stringer.

Apparently if he did not sail on the Titanic, he sure did not return to his wife whom he had recently married. Very strange.

Henry Loscher hloscher@earthlink.net
 
Dec 6, 2000
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Hello Henry,

Looking at "TITANIC PEOPLE" I see Gillespie left a widow; but it says that the Relief Fund monies of £75 and 5/- per week were paid to his mother Eliza.

It would seem the widow did not receive any monies.

Looking at Gillespie's encyclopedia-titanica Person Summary we have a letter of inquiry from his brother Daniel James Gillespie, but no such sibling is named in "TITANIC PEOPLE".

It is all becoming very strange.
 

Senan Molony

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Jan 30, 2004
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Final proof that William Henry Gillespie died on the Titanic:

96244.jpg


It is a panel on the tombstone of Richard and Eliza Gillespie in Abbeyleix, Church of Ireland graveyard, Co Laois, Ireland.

It says:

William Henry (Gillespie)
Who was lost at sea
in Titanic disaster
15th April 1912
Aged 31 years.

See also the ET passenger listing for William Gillespie, where I have uploaded documentation relating to an Irish police investigation into William Gillespie, which separately established that he died on the Titanic.

He definitely travelled and died. Why the WSL papers should show a refund I have no idea, but it is simply no grounds for concluding that he was not on board.
 

Kevin Barrett

Member
Aug 14, 2006
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Looks like I'm bumping up a really old thread here. :) I just ordered Debbie's book via Amazon, but her profile has been deleted from the system. Anyone know if she's still doing Titanic research? She mentioned in one of her posts that she would be continuing her work.

Thanks!