Who would be considered an officer?

[Nehemiah Ula]

So basically I have wondered, what would count as an officer? is a surgeon an officer? Are Master At Arms officers?
This is a list of the Officers on Titanic (If they count as officers)
Captain Smith
Chief Officer Wilde
First Officer Murdoch
Second Officer Lightoller
Third Officer Pitman
Fourth Officer Boxhall
Fifth Officer Lowe
Sixth Officer Moody
Chief Purser McElroy
Second Purser Barker
Surgeon O’Loughlin
Doctor Simpson
Master At Arms King
Master At Arms Bailey
Pilot Bowyer
Do some of these people count?

 

[Thomas Krom]

So basically I have wondered, what would count as an officer? is a surgeon an officer? Are Master At Arms officers?

The surgeon's and master-at-arms weren't nautical officers (which I believe is the term that sparks to mind when someone says "officers" relating to the Titanic), however they did had certain powers and authority over people. Just as the nautical officer's the surgeons and master-at-arms were part of the deck crew. I personally believe they do not count as officer's considering they most likely don't have the certificates.

 

[Nehemiah Ula]

The surgeon's and master-at-arms weren't nautical officers (which I believe is the term that sparks to mind when someone says "officers" relating to the Titanic), however they did had certain powers and authority over people. Just as the nautical officer's the surgeons and master-at-arms were part of the deck crew. I personally believe they do not count as officer's considering they most likely don't have the certificates.

Thank you!

 

[Seumas]

A higher authority than the WSL, The Royal Navy of 1912 (quite a number of the Titanic's crew were ex RN or reservists) certainly considered all engineers, surgeons and paymasters (their misleading but catch all term for purser) to be officers.

However, as Tom said though, it all depends on what one means. If you mean just navigating and bridge watchkeeping then it was Smith, Wilde, Murdoch and co.

The Master-At-Arms were senior ratings, similar to petty officers but not officers. They were still junior to the Bosun's Mate and the man nobody wanted to get on the wrong side of, the Bosun, the most senior rating.

 

[Jim Currie]

So basically I have wondered, what would count as an officer? is a surgeon an officer? Are Master At Arms officers?
This is a list of the Officers on Titanic (If they count as officers)
Captain Smith
Chief Officer Wilde
First Officer Murdoch
Second Officer Lightoller
Third Officer Pitman
Fourth Officer Boxhall
Fifth Officer Lowe
Sixth Officer Moody
Chief Purser McElroy
Second Purser Barker
Surgeon O’Loughlin
Doctor Simpson
Master At Arms King
Master At Arms Bailey
Pilot Bowyer
Do some of these people count?

Passenger Ships have "Departments", the principal ones being Navigation, Engineering, Electrical, Catering-Hotel, Medical, Communications, Office, etc. Each Department has a head, usually termed "Chief" who in turn has a junior or juniors. All of these individuals are Officers and wear an officer's uniform with a sleeve band to indicate rank.. the more bands - the higher the rank. Normally there are only two POs in a Merchant ship -The Bosun and the Carpenter. Petty Officer is probably from French and simply means 'little officer'.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

On passenger ships, less knowledgeable passengers and even some engine room crew might have considered anyone wearing a uniform with a peaked cap with a visor as an "officer" although they would not be officially considered as such.

 

[Michael Hinz]

Many of the surviving passengers from all three classes spoke of being informed by "officers" at the beginning of the evacuation. However, most of these "officers" were probably stewards.

 

[Stephen Carey]

I think it was 1913 when the engineers became 'officers' as opposed to engineers? That was when the pay scales, hours of work and quality of food for the deck department were raised to equal those of the engineers, though I'm not 100% sure of the year. Bit of a duff deal for the ginger beers, Jim!

 

[Jim Currie]

I think it was 1913 when the engineers became 'officers' as opposed to engineers? That was when the pay scales, hours of work and quality of food for the deck department were raised to equal those of the engineers, though I'm not 100% sure of the year. Bit of a duff deal for the ginger beers, Jim!

I'll ignore that , Stephen
However, I read somewhere that it was shortly after that when the engineers got their purple.

 

[Seumas]

Purple was worn by RN engineers as far back as the 1860s, but was not widely adopted by the MN until after the First World War.

There is a commonly repeated myth that in the months following the Titanic disaster, King George V ordered that all engineers (MN and RN) from thereafter were to wear purple in memory of the "example set" by the engineers of the Titanic but it is not true.

 

[Jim Currie]

Purple was worn by RN engineers as far back as the 1860s, but was not widely adopted by the MN until after the First World War.

There is a commonly repeated myth that in the months following the Titanic disaster, King George V ordered that all engineers (MN and RN) from thereafter were to wear purple in memory of the "example set" by the engineers of the Titanic but it is not true.

I know about the King George story, Seamus.
The First World War broke out16 months after Titanic so that was pretty 'soon' after the event.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

King George V ordered that all engineers (MN and RN) from thereafter were to wear purple in memory of the "example set" by the engineers of the Titanic

In 1912, could the British Monarch "order" military personnel about such things bypassing the Parliament?

 

[Seumas]

In 1912, could the British Monarch "order" military personnel about such things bypassing the Parliament?

In most matters no but it does appear that the monarch could veto the proposed names of RN warships under construction if he thought them inappropriate.

Here is an article about First Lord of the Admiralty Winston Churchill and King George V's frequent disagreements over potential names for warships.

https://winstonchurchill.hillsdale.edu/hms-cromwell-naming-warships/

To be fair, I think the King did have a good point about "HMS Pitt"

 

[Jim Currie]

In 1912, could the British Monarch "order" military personnel about such things bypassing the Parliament?

After the Devine Right of Kings nonsense, the Monarch could only - and still can only - express disapproval. The last word is with Parliament. However, to deny the monarch publicly on things that have the public interest is a form of political suicide.