why are the locked gate exagerated in movies?

[Aurélien WOLFF]

I noticed that while there have been some cases of locked gates, itdoesn't seem to have been as much of a generality as movies like cameron titanic suggest, is it partly for the dramatic? (tho to stay accurate, I think movies could go for the mass of humanity described by gracie)

 

[Arun Vajpey]

I noticed that while there have been some cases of locked gates, itdoesn't seem to have been as much of a generality as movies like cameron titanic suggest, is it partly for the dramatic?

IMO, it is entirely for dramatic reasons. Same reason why Cameron's movie had Jack and Jill (or was it Rose? My memory is not as good as it used to be) distracting the lookouts with their necking while the iceberg arrived.

 

[Aurélien WOLFF]

rose, tho I tend to not view any titanic movies as perfect or definitive, a night to remember also did this. Samuel halpern book also does give passengers accounts of those gates.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

Samuel halpern book also does give passengers accounts of those gates.

There were undoubtedly locked gates that kept steerage passengers from getting "accidentally" to the higher classes; that was the policy in those days. But my point is that they were kept locked during normal voyage and after the accident, most were simply not unlocked by the stewards because they were too busy and were uncertain of what to do themselves. I do not believe that any barrier was specifically locked after the accident to prevent third class passengers from reaching safety.

Deep down in the third class areas, the danger to the ship would have become obvious rather earlier and with the ensuing confused groups moving about, the limited stewards would have had their hands full coping. A few steerage passengers like Fahim al-Zainni, Latifah Baqlini and her group etc were enterprising enough to find their own way to the upper decks. But yes, it would have been a difficult and convoluted path to get there.

 

[Thomas Krom]

Samuel halpern book also does give passengers accounts of those gates.

The accounts mentioned mostly refers to the two waist-high gates leading from the aft well-deck on C-deck to the B-deck second class promenade.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

The only Bostwick gates even shown on the plans were surrounding a vegetable prep area.

There is no evidence of any kind that they existed at all in the sense that we understand. However, like everything else in the Titanic Mythos, this is so entrenched it refuses to die.

 

[Thomas Krom]

The only Bostwick gates even shown on the plans were surrounding a vegetable prep area.

There are a couple more on E-deck, which locations I'd gladly show you. However I can already say they wouldn't be in the way of anyone during the sinking or prevented access to the boat deck.

 

[Aurélien WOLFF]

disclaimer that the plans aren't a 100% reliable, not everything can be on them, and things can be added on the ship but not on the plan..

 

[Michael H. Standart]

There are a couple more on E-deck, which locations I'd gladly show you. However I can already say they wouldn't be in the way of anyone during the sinking or prevented access to the boat deck.

The legend comes from that after waist high gate which goes up to the promenade from the well deck, and the incensed third class passenger that was thrown down by the steward had no problem vaulting over it when he ran up to try and hunt the guy down.

I wonder how that all worked out?

 

[Arun Vajpey]

I would have thought waist high gates would not have been much of a barrier if people were determined to get across, even women. Most adults could have vaulted over and lifted smaller kids across.

Also, how strong were those gates and locks? Would they have withstood the pressure if 4 or 5 strapping young men (plenty of those in steerage) had forced their shoulders onto the barrier?

 

[Michael H. Standart]

I would have thought waist high gates would not have been much of a barrier if people were determined to get across, even women.

Ultimately, they weren't. Near the end, a lot of people were seen coming up from down below.

 

[Keith H]

It seems the locked gates are used for journalistic license to perpetuate the myth of the third class being sacrificed for the saving of the rich and privileged passengers , it is always annoying that this is exploited out of context and just adds fuel to the fire of jealousy towards those who have done well in life by their own efforts , it never seems to be recognized that most of the first class came from humble beginnings themselves.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

It seems the locked gates are used for journalistic license to perpetuate the myth of the third class being sacrificed for the saving of the rich and privileged passengers , it is always annoying that this is exploited out of context and just adds fuel to the fire of jealousy towards those who have done well in life by their own efforts , it never seems to be recognized that most of the first class came from humble beginnings themselves.

There is truth in what you are saying but at the same time we have to consider the other side of the picture as well. In those days, there was some degree of "dog eat dog" type of ruthlessness in those who prospered quickly after settling in America. While it cannot be generalized, "prospering by one's own efforts" sometimes involved trampling over all opposition in grabbing every opportunity and fairness & honesty were not always high on the priorities list. I felt that after reading about the backgrounds of some of the plutocrats on or otherwise involved with the Titanic.....no names mentioned, of course.

 

[brionboyles]

Dramatic license to enhance legend or bolster class warfare.

The Board of Trade inspections included ensuring that passengers had UNHEEDED access to boats and lifesaving equipment.

While there certainly were barriers in the way of gates, ropes and signs warning/restricting passengers from leaving their respective class accommodations, I cannot envision a prison-like atmosphere that full-height gates would impart... nor even a mind-set that would think having such gates installed would be a necessity.

It's not like steerage passengers of the day were thought to be a herd of unprincipled, uncivilized, unlawful hordes that would creep throughout the ship unless sealed in the underworld, under close watch, lock and key...

What... IF such gates existed, why? Were the ship's designers planning ahead for riots or gangs of looters to erupt from the great unwashed steerage class?
There were dozens of places throughout the ship that steerage passengers could slip into other class spaces with hardly any more effort than climbing a rail or following a crewmember thru Scotland Road.
Surely there'd be such gates EVERYWHERE, and certainly evidenced not only OLYMPIC, but other ships of the era...

No... I think modest physical barriers were all what anyone would encounter... and that steerage suffered more casualties from simply not knowing what to do or getting lost while being tended by a tiny contingent of stewards overcome by events.
At any rate, they were plenty other barriers:
They had the barriers of language...
They had no boat drill...
They had no familiarity within the maze of the ship, beyond the few compartments they had chanced to occupy within their class...
They were generally from ranks that followed direction and societal norms...
...and they probably mostly behaved accordingly, waiting for word or permission (whether it was needed or not), believing (as those in 2nd and 1st Class did) there was no real danger until it was too late.

Drama enough, in my book.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

Apart from the language barrier, there were other issues that could have caused confusion and delays in third class and one of them IMO would certainly have been people searching for their friends and relatives berthed elsewhere. With the Croats, Bulgarians, Lebanese-Syrians etc for example, not only would there have been the language barrier for the most part but a strong likelihood that Miss X wanted to find out about Mr Y once the danger to the ship became evident etc. Even without language problems like among the Irish, there were tightly knit groups who might have been berthed at either end of the ship. The "Addergoole 14" for example had 11 women and 3 men and included Patrick Canavan travelling with 3 female cousins; only Annie Kelly survived from those four and Delia McDermott and Anna McGowan were the only other survivors from the entire group. With large families like the Sages and Goodwins, keeping everyone together during the mounting chaos with the father not wanting to venture along narrow corridors with kids in tow unless they knew where they were going could have kept them below too long. Then there would have been cases where one or two telling the rest that they would find out what was going on and then the two groups not being able to find each other afterwards.

While there certainly were barriers in the way of gates, ropes and signs warning/restricting passengers from leaving their respective class accommodations, I cannot envision a prison-like atmosphere that full-height gates would impart.

Agreed. Those were shown entirely for cheap melodramatic effect and to make contemporary folk aware of the class barriers that existed at the time between the rich and the "Great Unwashed".