Thanks Sam and Mike. Mike knows me from many years here and we met at the SC gathering in 2001. But my way there was bumpy. Being neither Lordite or non-Lordite and just curious, I tend to ask or say things that may seem off as I am not an expert at any of this. And have said things here that have caused hurt feelings,so I want to be careful. I honestly am trying to learn. So Sam, I appreciate your posts and Mike's post directed to my ramblings above.
Mike wrote in response:
>>Maureen posted: Couple that with the concept that there was a third ship at some point...could this happen and could that cause confusion? Just curious?<<
"So am I. I don't know how it could, since the "mystery ship" that Joe Boxhall reported was moving and displayed what he thought was a stern light if I recall correctly. I don't know of many ice floes or fields of pack ice which display lights of any kind."
Maureen: Interesting response, but not sure that was what I was attempting to say. Hmmmm...what I was pointing out was that there were obviously ice formations of various types out there. One was 49 W to 51 W which was reported and that is the one I was referring to. At that latitude, the distance would be about 45 miles between the longitude markings I think and current was at about 1 mph. But this ice may have been influenced by the gulf currents and heading eastward. The bumpy horizon caused by the sea ice could impede what people thought they saw. Just a thought.
"Icebergs tend to drift with the deeper currents (having 7/8 their mass below the surface) while the ships would drift with the surface currents."
Both of these statements are true,but Shackelton's ship Endurance shows me that a ship can become one with sea ice and act like the ice field would act in the current and wind.
Sea ice would actually accelerate to the speed that the wind would carry it, even against the currents. That time frame in 1912, it started out calm but the winds pickedup before morning. Been looking into this for a short period of time and the folks who study ice say that the wind's impact on sea ice can cause the ice to accelerate to a speed faster than the current and in the direction of the wind as opposed to the direction of the sea current. And the Gulf Stream does not stay in one place,it changes latitude by a few degrees too.
Californian could have forged its way into the sea ice and been stuck-not moving as Lord said, but not staying in one place as Lord had thought because the sea ice was actually taking it backward (eastward) at minimum 1 mph or more causing it to end up at about 13 miles east of where Lord actually took his position and thought he was. If this sea ice moved and took Lord's ship with it, it would cause the ice field that Lord was in not to be seen by any of the rescue ships in the morning. The rescue ships would only see and would only note the Mesaba sea ice. And Lord actually traveling for some distance between the two ice fields (east to west) in the open water lying between the two ice fields until the end of the 49-51W ice (which would have traveled to about 47+-49+W during the night) and then heading to the end of teh Mesaba ice to the point where the other rescue ships (except Carpathia
) had congregated.
Note also that the bodies were also found eastward of the wreck.
So, byt morning, Lord and almost the end of the ice field would have been directly above the Titanic which was not impeded by that ice field and would be caught in the normal sea current.
Having the two ships "going" at their own "speeds" would cause the Californian to see a ship under sail perhaps (Possibly Titanic in its sinking position) and the bumpiness of the horizon could have impeded the line of site to know exactly what they each were seeing. And why some on Titanic saw a rescue ship and some did not. (Don't forget, someone at the hearings said something about a two ships, one close and one further out in the distance that was sending up rockets... signals. Does that make three ships?)
Which brings up another question? What about running lights...I think that I will post a new thread on running lights. Isn't there some rule about a stopped ship showing two red ships mid ships when stopped? If so, neither of these ships were running, so technically neither should have had a green light showing...right? So who did the green lights belong to? Hmmmm....I personally think it was Mike...