Why didn't the Titanic's lookouts see the Californian?

Thanks for the response here Sam. I am always learning new things here.

I started the other thread so that I could learn about running lights and have read it. I think that my point here on my post was that the thread here is why didn't the Titanic lookouts see the Californian, and I guess that the topic intrigued me. If the lookouts on Titanic were looking for other ships, they would have wanted to warn oncoming ships as well and put up the red lights. If they weren't thinking of oncoming ships, and did not putup the red lights, then that would explain why the lookouts were not really focused on looking for other surrounding ships and why Californian may have been missed if it was within line of sight.

Guess, I was trying to say, I think that Titanic was trying to communicate with anyone but missed one way of communicating with Californian and that was by turning on their red lights to indicate they were stopped and not under control because they could not maneuver.

But that should have been saved for a thread called why didn't the californian lookouts see Titanic's red lights? SMILE.
Maureen.
 
did any 1 else believe that there was a ship near the titanic as she went down there is a theory that there was a ship and the were smugglin drugs of something many suvivors say there was a set of lights not far from them however they said that the ship didnt snap in half
 
Liam:

I've moved your post here.

I had to choose a thread - you will see that there are several threads relating to Californian and the other potential 'Mystery Ship' candidates.
 
Liam, you may want to check out https://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/discus/messages/5666/93671.html?1064768030 for three different discussions on the Samson. The claim was that she was illegally hunting seals in the area and that in itself is something of a problem as there was nothing illegal about hunting seals on international waters at the time.

The other problem lies in the fact that this was a six knot capable vessel that just couldn't have made the trip from Isafjordhur Iceland to the wreck scene and back to Isafjordhur in the 14 day time frame she was at sea. This was a 3000 mile round trip.
 
The two look outs Lee and Fleet were relived at midnight after the Titanic struck the ice burg by Hogg and Evans .
But at the enquiry only Hogg was called to give evidence but no questions were put to him about sighting of any other ships in the vicinity .
 
Keith H said:
The two look outs Lee and Fleet were relived at midnight after the Titanic struck the ice burg by Hogg and Evans .
But at the enquiry only Hogg was called to give evidence but no questions were put to him about sighting of any other ships in the vicinity .
Click to expand...
In looking at the American enquiry Hog states they went up to the crows nest at midnight to change watch with Lee and Fleet and then stayed in the crows nest for twenty minutes but seeing the confusion going on below on the decks and not getting any reply to phoning the bridge to see what was expected of them , came back down from the forward crows nest on their own accord ,
So it seems from then on no one was on look out duties.
 
Last edited:
Reply
  • Like
Reactions: Samuel Halpern and Steven Christian
I believe that people from the Titanic did not see Californian because Californian navigational lights were not bright enough to see them, not as bright as Titanic’s lights. I believe that there is a very good possibility that the Titanic and Californian were drifting in different currents first approaching each other and then leaving each other. So, when Californian got closer, as Boxhall testified she did, he and others were able to see her lights.
 
Reply
  • Like
Reactions: Paul Burrell
Michael H. Standart said:
Liam, you may want to check out Samson | Encyclopedia Titanica Message Board for three different discussions on the Samson. The claim was that she was illegally hunting seals in the area and that in itself is something of a problem as there was nothing illegal about hunting seals on international waters at the time.

The other problem lies in the fact that this was a six knot capable vessel that just couldn't have made the trip from Isafjordhur Iceland to the wreck scene and back to Isafjordhur in the 14 day time frame she was at sea. This was a 3000 mile round trip.
Click to expand...
I saw this old thread while looking at the posts. I never bought the whole Samson theory for many reasons. One being the point Mr Standart mentioned about not being illegal. The other I always thought is would that even be a good seal hunting spot. I didn't think seals would be that far out in the ocean. But if I'm wrong about that would be gladly corrected.
As for seeing the lights...the bridge crew were seeing lights. Whether or not it was Californians lights has been debated endlessly. But I did learn something new in this thread as reading thru the inquires it never clicked with me about lookouts getting no answer from the bridge crew and coming down early.
 
Mila said:
They were, but some 30-40 minutes after the Titanic lights were seen from Californian.
Click to expand...
As Keith H. pointed out about the lookouts not being answered by the bridge crew I wonder what it was they were trying to report if anything. I need to go read that testimony to see if they said anything about that. He said they were trying to find out what was expected of them. I would think lookouts would know that already.
 
Steven Christian said:
As Keith H. pointed out about the lookouts not being answered by the bridge crew I wonder what it was they were trying to report if anything. I need to go read that testimony to see if they said anything about that. He said they were trying to find out what was expected of them. I would think lookouts would know that already.
Click to expand...
Yes but with the ship stopped and seeing the commotion going on below they were properly wondering what to do next , stay on duty ? not there was now any reason to be keeping look out or come back down and assist with what is going on .
 
Reply
  • Like
Reactions: Jim Currie
Steven Christian said:
As Keith H. pointed out about the lookouts not being answered by the bridge crew I wonder what it was they were trying to report if anything. I need to go read that testimony to see if they said anything about that. He said they were trying to find out what was expected of them. I would think lookouts would know that already.
Click to expand...
They were not. They testified they did not see lights on lookout. Lordites use that delay in seeing the lights to allege that it could not have been Californian. BTW, have not you read Sam’s book? He alleges that they did not see the lights because only dim stern light was opened to the Titanic at that time but this is incorrect. They, from the Titanic, should have seen the lights earlier. Besides, Californian was first showing her green, starboard light. Except Boxhall, nobody saw it by itself. Why?
 
If you read the evidence properly, you will find that the vessel seen by Groves was approaching from the south and seeing Californian's stern light. right up until just before midnight The one seen by Lord was approaching from the east and seeing Californian' green sidelight. right up until she met the ice barrier However, Lord saw his vessel at least 15 minutes earlier than Groves saw his and the wireless warning by Evans proves this.
The one seen by Groves could never have been Titanic, because Titanic held her westerly course right up until 6 minutes before her engines stopped forever. That takes the stern light reason for Titanic's lookouts not seeing Californian before impact, right out of the picture.
. Boxhall said "someone" reported a light just after he had been to the wireless room That someone had to have been in a position where the glare of the wheelhouse lights did not prevent the detection of a masthead light on th horizon. The only place that could have been was the nest.
 
Mila said:
So, when Californian got closer, as Boxhall testified she did, he and others were able to see her lights.
Click to expand...
It works both ways Mila. If one ship gets closer to another, the other must get closer to the first. That's the problem with your different currents supposition. The ship seen from Californian had stopped around 11:30 Cal time and was perceived to have stopped about 5 miles away. It never appeared to come closer. But as you should know, perceptions can be deceiving.
 
Jim Currie said:
If you read the evidence properly, you will find that the vessel seen by Groves was approaching from the south and seeing Californian's stern light. right up until just before midnight The one seen by Lord was approaching from the east and seeing Californian' green sidelight. right up until she met the ice barrier However, Lord saw his vessel at least 15 minutes earlier than Groves saw his and the wireless warning by Evans proves this.
Click to expand...
The problem with your two mystery ship scenario Jim is that Lord and Groves were on the bridge at the same time around 11:45. Yet there was only one steamer seen, and it was then a little abaft the starboard beam at that time according to what Lord told Stone.
 
Back
Top