Why many crewmembers never had to testify?

[Sarah S]

Hello,

why weren’t all the surviving crew members of the Titanic called to testifiy at the inquiries? There were over hundreds of suviving crewmen who never had to attend neither at the british nor at the american inquiry, but why not? And how did they pick those who did testify?
Wasn’t it actually obvious that all the crew members should have testified, or at least sent a written account of their version of events?
We could have gotten so many more answers and stories.

Thank you

 

[Phillip Gleed]

This would have made sense. My great grandfather, Sidney Humphreys, took command of lifeboat 11 with the most people in one lifeboat, yet he was never called to give account. I wonder if anyone in that boat was called.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

I have always wondered about why so few of the 72 or so survivors of the "Black Gang" were summoned to testify. They could have provided valuable information about the early flooding pattern.

There are other surprising and perhaps key omissions and/or oddities:

Henry Bailey, the survivor of the two Masters-at-Arms on the Titanic, was not called in to testify on either side of the Atlantic. I find that omission the most surprising of all. Bailey was on board for 1 hour 40 minutes after the collision - longer than Pitman and almost same as Lowe and was effectively like a travelling policeman.

QM Olliver, who was on standby duty on the bridge at the time of collision and arrived quickly afterwards onto the bridge, was only questioned in America. I feel that he would have been more at home in his native UK and might have provided more information on the activities of the first 30 minutes or so after the impact.

Leading Fireman Barrett, another key survivor witness, was not called in during the main American Inquiry, but questioned by Senator Smith after the British Investigation while he was serving on board the Olympic.

Another oddity IMO is the surviving ship's barber Augustus Weikman. He survived on Collapsible A, which meant he was on board during the final 10 minutes and would have seen and heard a lot of important things. And yet, he was never called in to actually testify at either Inquiry though he submitted an affidavit at the American one in which he tried to exonerate Bruce Ismay. He also gave many newspaper interviews. (I am not sure if, as an American subject, there would have been any difficulty in calling Weikman to the British Inquiry)

 

[William Oakes]

Probably damage control by the White Star Line, and ignorance by those conducting the inquiries.
The officers who testified were rather tight lipped and didn't volunteer any information, at least not much.
The rank and file probably would have been more forthright, but in a class system the opinions of officers was probably more highly regarded than seamen's opinions.
I have no proof of any of this but it is logical that the officers were, shall we say, more readily available and considered more desirable witnesses.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

The rank and file probably would have been more forthright, but in a class system the opinions of officers was probably more highly regarded than seamen's opinions.
I have no proof of any of this but it is logical that the officers were, shall we say, more readily available and considered more desirable witnesses.

I believe you are right. WSL might have found the graphic details of relatively rapid flooding of BR6 and the like embarrassing and probably damaging to their pubilicity. The "rank and file" might have provided details which the more "diplomatic' officers were reluctant to do.

One thing though. Which organization had more power in covertly influencing how he Inquiry was conducted - WSL or IMM? Or to gain/lose for that matter? I have read about J P Morgan's complete lack of scruples when it came to business matters.

 

[Sarah S]

Reading these answers really make me think that the Inquiries were not reputable and professional enough. Especially that those crewmen who stayed until close to the final plunge were not called to testify, I really can’t understand that part.
Another thing which is really bothersome while reading their testimonies is how they never specified on anything. I wished they could have been more elaborate and detailed, and “free” while testifying, but they never added further information. And the senators often didn’t focus on actual important questions. Not to forget that they asked thousands of questions and still so much is left unanswered

 

[William Oakes]

I believe you are right. WSL might have found the graphic details of relatively rapid flooding of BR6 and the like embarrassing and probably damaging to their pubilicity. The "rank and file" might have provided details which the more "diplomatic' officers were reluctant to do.

One thing though. Which organization had more power in covertly influencing how he Inquiry was conducted - WSL or IMM? Or to gain/lose for that matter? I have read about J P Morgan's complete lack of scruples when it came to business matters.

Morgan was probably the greatest businessman in history and the most ruthless.
On American soil, IMM had the greatest influence. In Britain it was the WSL with the greatest influence.
AND this became an issue of national pride.
Britain felt strongly that the US authorities had no business meddling in their business.
Lots of posturing and politics....
I believe certain things were covertly hushed up. Mainly that the ship broke in two.
IMM and WSL damage control.
Who wants to sail on ships that can break in two????
JMO

 

[Arun Vajpey]

Another important survivor who was interviewed only in the US but curiously not in his native UK was Boatswain's Mate Albert Haines. According to his testimony at the American Inquiry, he was just outside the mess room, being on standby duty.

Senator SMITH.
Where were you when the accident occurred?

Mr. HAINES.
I was standing by, down below. It being Sunday night, the men did not work Sunday night, and the men were in the mess room, and I was outside, sir. If it had been any other night, we would have been washing the decks.

I understand that it meant he was under the forecastle deck - probably 2 decks under level with the Saloon Deck, which would explain why he also heard the hiss of air escaping from the overflow pipe near the anchor chain storage area. While going to investigate, he met Hemming and Foley on a similar mission and then Chief Officer Wilde.

(In Cameron's 1997 film, a man was shown standing on the forecastle deck right at the prow; he yelled "It's going to hit!" as the iceberg closed in and impact occurred. AFAIK, there was no one there at the time but I wonder if it was supposed to be Haines).

He then told the committee that he helped with preparation of lifeboats, presumably on the starboard side. Haines said that he later went and stood by his assigned boat, Lifeboat #9. He said this:

Senator SMITH.
What happened then?

Mr. HAINES.
We had the boat crew there, and Mr. Murdoch came along with a crowd of passengers, and we filled the boat with ladies, and lowered the boat, and he told me to lay off and keep clear of the ship. I got the boat clear, sir, and laid out near the ship. I did not think the ship would sink, of course, sir.

I think my good friend and mentor Sam Halpern and I might have slightly different views in when that happened. IMO, it happened somewhere between 01:18 and 01:20am after the so-called firearms meeting in Murdoch's cabin. I believe that at around 01:15am the captain and the 3 senior officers emerged from Murdoch's cabin which was on the port side; while Captain Smith went to where some crew members had sneaked into Lifeboat #2, the 3 officers went aft to where Moody and Lowe were supervising loading of Lifeboats #16, #14 and #12 almost together. Upon their arrival Moody concentrated on Lifeboat #16, Lowe on #14 and Lightoller took over Lifeboat #12 while Wilde remained in a supervisory capacity. There was a large crowd of passengers around those 3 boats and IMO, Murdoch took a group of women and maybe a few children from that crowd and crossed to the starboard side to where Lifeboat #9 was ready and prepared (presumably by McElroy) and took over - as seen by Haines.

My point in mentioning all this is to say that Haines was a valuable witness regarding the chain of events after the collision and should have been summonsed to the British Inquiry as well.

 

[William Oakes]

Another important survivor who was interviewed only in the US but curiously not in his native UK was Boatswain's Mate Albert Haines. According to his testimony at the American Inquiry, he was just outside the mess room, being on standby duty.

Senator SMITH.
Where were you when the accident occurred?

Mr. HAINES.
I was standing by, down below. It being Sunday night, the men did not work Sunday night, and the men were in the mess room, and I was outside, sir. If it had been any other night, we would have been washing the decks.

I understand that it meant he was under the forecastle deck - probably 2 decks under level with the Saloon Deck, which would explain why he also heard the hiss of air escaping from the overflow pipe near the anchor chain storage area. While going to investigate, he met Hemming and Foley on a similar mission and then Chief Officer Wilde.

(In Cameron's 1997 film, a man was shown standing on the forecastle deck right at the prow; he yelled "It's going to hit!" as the iceberg closed in and impact occurred. AFAIK, there was no one there at the time but I wonder if it was supposed to be Haines).

He then told the committee that he helped with preparation of lifeboats, presumably on the starboard side. Haines said that he later went and stood by his assigned boat, Lifeboat #9. He said this:

Senator SMITH.
What happened then?

Mr. HAINES.
We had the boat crew there, and Mr. Murdoch came along with a crowd of passengers, and we filled the boat with ladies, and lowered the boat, and he told me to lay off and keep clear of the ship. I got the boat clear, sir, and laid out near the ship. I did not think the ship would sink, of course, sir.

I think my good friend and mentor Sam Halpern and I might have slightly different views in when that happened. IMO, it happened somewhere between 01:18 and 01:20am after the so-called firearms meeting in Murdoch's cabin. I believe that at around 01:15am the captain and the 3 senior officers emerged from Murdoch's cabin which was on the port side; while Captain Smith went to where some crew members had sneaked into Lifeboat #2, the 3 officers went aft to where Moody and Lowe were supervising loading of Lifeboats #16, #14 and #12 almost together. Upon their arrival Moody concentrated on Lifeboat #16, Lowe on #14 and Lightoller took over Lifeboat #12 while Wilde remained in a supervisory capacity. There was a large crowd of passengers around those 3 boats and IMO, Murdoch took a group of women and maybe a few children from that crowd and crossed to the starboard side to where Lifeboat #9 was ready and prepared (presumably by McElroy) and took over - as seen by Haines.

My point in mentioning all this is to say that Haines was a valuable witness regarding the chain of events after the collision and should have been summonsed to the British Inquiry as well.

Good Stuff Arun!!!

 

[Mike Spooner]

Yes I all ways thought the inquiries was bit of shamble for the real true. What and earth where non marine experts put in charge?
As didn't not go without notice with Lightoller who regard the inquiries as farse and a white washing exercise.

 

[IanMcD]

Probably damage control by the White Star Line, and ignorance by those conducting the inquiries.
The officers who testified were rather tight lipped and didn't volunteer any information, at least not much.
The rank and file probably would have been more forthright, but in a class system the opinions of officers was probably more highly regarded than seamen's opinions.
I have no proof of any of this but it is logical that the officers were, shall we say, more readily available and considered more desirable witnesses.

I agree.

 

[Mike Spooner]

The first question I ask my self who decides to have an inquiry in the first place? Then who will be in charge of a inquiry?
I would of thought marine experts be a good start and not a bunch of lawyers. As for a 72 old judge Lord Mersey who in my opinion was passed his best and not the best choice. Who picked him in the first place? In other words if you can't get the foundation right what chance will you get the
results!

 

[Samuel Halpern]

Why not have everyone who survived called as a witness?
Common people, get real.
The US Senate committee could not call everyone involved, nor did they have an unlimited time to spend on an inquiry, especially expecting the crew of a British ship to be held in the Sates for an indeterminant amount of time. The British had a bunch of depositions to sift through and decide who be the most useful witnesses as to the events of that night. Plus they had access to the transcripts from the American inquiry that could be used if needed to fill in some gaps.

 

[Mike Spooner]

Why not have everyone who survived called as a witness?
Common people, get real.
The US Senate committee could not call everyone involved, nor did they have an unlimited time to spend on an inquiry, especially expecting the crew of a British ship to be held in the Sates for an indeterminant amount of time. The British had a bunch of depositions to sift through and decide who be the most useful witnesses as to the events of that night. Plus they had access to the transcripts from the American inquiry that could be used if needed to fill in some gaps.

That statement unlimited time some it up. I suppose a half bake inquiry is better than non. Why put a non marine expect person in charge?

 

[Sarah S]

Why not have everyone who survived called as a witness?
Common people, get real.
The US Senate committee could not call everyone involved, nor did they have an unlimited time to spend on an inquiry, especially expecting the crew of a British ship to be held in the Sates for an indeterminant amount of time. The British had a bunch of depositions to sift through and decide who be the most useful witnesses as to the events of that night. Plus they had access to the transcripts from the American inquiry that could be used if needed to fill in some gaps.

I personally think calling every single survivor to testify would be nearly impossible for various reasons.

Though calling every crew member who survived sounds perfectly reasonable to me. I honestly can’t understand why it didn’t happen, even if it would be time consuming. They don’t have to attend the American one, but at least the British inquiry.