Wie lange waren die Kessel unter Feuer ?


trimmer_a

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Feb 26, 2021
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Hallo, hier eine rein hypothetische Frage - ich hoffe, das mein deutscher Text richtig übersetzt wird :cool:: D.

Wie lange wurde das Feuer in den Kesseln gehalten?
Durch die Konstruktion des Schiffskessels - wird durch eine Konstruktion von ca. 12 ° die Feuerbuchdecke vom Wasser nicht mehr geschlossen. Es droht Überhitzung der Feuerbuüchse ... Kesselzerknall. Ich befelle einfach mal, das DAS auch die Ingenieure an Bord und bei allen dem Chaso nicht auch noch eine Verschlimmerung der Situation festgestellt.
Die Nachricht, das die Titanic sinken wird, wurde sicher auch in den Kessel- und Maschinenwelt verkündet. Das Einzige, wozu jetzt noch Dampf gebraucht wurde, waren die Generatoren für den Strom.
Ich freu mich auf eure Beiträge und Disskusionen ;): D.
 

Jim Currie

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Apr 16, 2008
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Hallo, hier eine rein hypothetische Frage - ich hoffe, das mein deutscher Text richtig übersetzt wird :cool:: D.

Wie lange wurde das Feuer in den Kesseln gehalten?
Durch die Konstruktion des Schiffskessels - wird durch eine Konstruktion von ca. 12 ° die Feuerbuchdecke vom Wasser nicht mehr geschlossen. Es droht Überhitzung der Feuerbuüchse ... Kesselzerknall. Ich befelle einfach mal, das DAS auch die Ingenieure an Bord und bei allen dem Chaso nicht auch noch eine Verschlimmerung der Situation festgestellt.
Die Nachricht, das die Titanic sinken wird, wurde sicher auch in den Kessel- und Maschinenwelt verkündet. Das Einzige, wozu jetzt noch Dampf gebraucht wurde, waren die Generatoren für den Strom.
Ich freu mich auf eure Beiträge und Disskusionen ;): D.
Hallo.
Die Wörter lassen sich nicht gut übersetzen. Hier ist eine Antwort für Sie:
Als die Stop-Order kam. Sie hörten auf, den Öfen Kohle zuzuführen, und schnitten ihnen die Luft ab (Klappen), und der überschüssige Dampf wurde abgelassen. Kurz darauf wurde die noch in den Öfen befindliche brennende Kohle und Asche herausgeharkt. Hoffe das hilft. Leider ist die Korrespondenz auf Englisch und mein Deutsch ist nicht gut.
 
Apr 17, 2020
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Germany
Hallo, hier eine rein hypothetische Frage - ich hoffe, das mein deutscher Text richtig übersetzt wird :cool:: D.

Wie lange wurde das Feuer in den Kesseln gehalten?
Durch die Konstruktion des Schiffskessels - wird durch eine Konstruktion von ca. 12 ° die Feuerbuchdecke vom Wasser nicht mehr geschlossen. Es droht Überhitzung der Feuerbuüchse ... Kesselzerknall. Ich befelle einfach mal, das DAS auch die Ingenieure an Bord und bei allen dem Chaso nicht auch noch eine Verschlimmerung der Situation festgestellt.
Die Nachricht, das die Titanic sinken wird, wurde sicher auch in den Kessel- und Maschinenwelt verkündet. Das Einzige, wozu jetzt noch Dampf gebraucht wurde, waren die Generatoren für den Strom.
Ich freu mich auf eure Beiträge und Disskusionen ;): D.
Hallo trimmer_a, dies hier ist ein internationales Forum! Verkehrssprache ist englisch. Bitte die nächsten Beiträge möglichst auf englisch schreiben,
damit die Leute hier Dich verstehen können. Vielen Dank und ein schönen Aufenthalt hier.

Gruß/Best regards

Hello trimmer_a, this is an international forum! The lingua franca is English. Please write the next articles in English if possible, so that the people here can understand you. Thank you and have a nice stay here.

Greetings / best regards
 
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trimmer_a

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Feb 26, 2021
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Hallo trimmer_a, dies hier ist ein internationales Forum! Verkehrssprache ist englisch. Bitte die nächsten Beiträge möglichst auf englisch schreiben,
damit die Leute hier Dich verstehen können. Vielen Dank und ein schönen Aufenthalt hier.

Gruß/Best regards

Hello trimmer_a, this is an international forum! The lingua franca is English. Please write the next articles in English if possible, so that the people here can understand you. Thank you and have a nice stay here.

Greetings / best regards
;) .. okay, I'´ll do that in the future
 
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trimmer_a

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Feb 26, 2021
11
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Halle/Saale - Germany
Hallo.
Die Wörter lassen sich nicht gut übersetzen. Hier ist eine Antwort für Sie:
Als die Stop-Order kam. Sie hörten auf, den Öfen Kohle zuzuführen, und schnitten ihnen die Luft ab (Klappen), und der überschüssige Dampf wurde abgelassen. Kurz darauf wurde die noch in den Öfen befindliche brennende Kohle und Asche herausgeharkt. Hoffe das hilft. Leider ist die Korrespondenz auf Englisch und mein Deutsch ist nicht gut.
Yes, with the technical terms it is always difficult. I also think that most of the cauldrons the fires were put out when the doom became clear. As I said, from an incline of approx. 12 degrees the fire book cover is exposed ....
 
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Guten Tag, Ich habe mir vorgestern dieselbe Frage gestellt -- oder zumindest eine sehr ähnliche Frage. Meine Frage war, ob zum Beispiel die Heizungsanlagen am Heck des Schiffes die ersten waren, die überflutet wurden, denn das Schiff hätte den Strom und die drahtlose Telegraphie behalten können. Ich habe die richtige Antwort nicht gefunden, aber ein Teil der Antwort auf deine Frage ist hier:


Aber selbst wenn du nicht findest, wonach du suchst, ist es trotzdem sehr interessant zu lesen. Als ich "Reverso" bat, deinen Text zu übersetzen, Er erzählte mir von der "Grillbuch-Decke" (deutsch - französisch).lol.!:)
 
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trimmer_a

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Feb 26, 2021
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Guten Tag, Ich habe mir vorgestern dieselbe Frage gestellt -- oder zumindest eine sehr ähnliche Frage. Meine Frage war, ob zum Beispiel die Heizungsanlagen am Heck des Schiffes die ersten waren, die überflutet wurden, denn das Schiff hätte den Strom und die drahtlose Telegraphie behalten können. Ich habe die richtige Antwort nicht gefunden, aber ein Teil der Antwort auf deine Frage ist hier:


Aber selbst wenn du nicht findest, wonach du suchst, ist es trotzdem sehr interessant zu lesen. Als ich "Reverso" bat, deinen Text zu übersetzen, Er erzählte mir von der "Grillbuch-Decke" (deutsch - französisch).lol.!:)
Hello Kareen, if I understand your question correctly, you mean, how long the boilers would have supplied steam for the generator if the thieves had not been closed and the Titanic had sunk on a straight keel? Is that so correctly understood?
 
Nov 14, 2005
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Hello Kareen, if I understand your question correctly, you mean, how long the boilers would have supplied steam for the generator if the thieves had not been closed and the Titanic had sunk on a straight keel? Is that so correctly understood?
"the thieves". Just curious but was that supposed to mean dampeners, hatches or something else? Can't figure it out. Cheers
 

Stephen Carey

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Apr 25, 2016
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The fires would have been raked out as the water came into each compartment. From the various movies and the inquiry, the fires in BR6 were the first to be raked out of course. The dampers were closed to avoid feeding air to the coal to keep it burning which would of course have added to the steam generation which was not needed.
These boilers had a massive steam reserve for the propulsion engines. To give an idea, the single ended boilers in BR1 were perfectly able to supply the whole hotel demand whilst the ship was in port, so could run as many main generators as was considered necessary. I doubt that all 4 would have been needed at any time, and there was usually at least one in reserve, maybe two. I haven't seen an electrical load estimate for the ship, so it's pure conjecture based on personal experience.
What this means is that the other boilers all banging away in BR 2-6 were supplying the main engines and the generators, which puts the amount of steam available into perspective, and shows why the safeties lifted for some time after the collision (as shown in the Cameron movie). This is the same as slamming your foot on the brake pedal but keeping the accelerator to the floor ... coal fired boilers were slow to respond to load changes, which is also why they didn't show much smoke underway at full speed, but filled the air with smoke when manoeuvring.
Going back to the boilers, I wouldn't think that it was necessary to keep fires in any of the boilers with the amount of steam they had available in BR2-4, with 5 for a certain time as well. They probably shut the stop valves on all the boilers at the after end to conserve steam, and only opened them as the steam pressure dropped - well, that's what I would have done!
Knowing that the end was nigh once BR4 flooded, and certainly after BR3 - though I don't know if they all flooded before the breakup or not - certainly BR2 was still unflooded and I would suspect BR3 was also clear to a certain extent.
Whilst the ship was underway at full sea revolutions, everything burning and turning, there were many auxiliaries that needed steam (everything was steam driven) and these include the huge seawater circulation pumps, the condenser air pumps, boiler feed pumps, drains pumps, refrigeration pumps and compressors, oil pumps etc etc. Once the main machinery was stopped, none of these needed to be working, so steam was conserved down to just that necessary to run either a main generator or, as I suspect, the two auxiliary generators which were accessible from the upper decks. That would leave only the auxiliary condenser in operation (which was used in port to supply the hotel load along with the BR1 boilers) plus its auxiliary air pump and seawater pump, which were quite small.

As for the boiler crowns (that being the name for the combustion chamber top) being uncovered as the water level fell either by usage of steam or the trim of the ship by the head, this would not be a problem without the fires being lit, and if they were lit, the boiler room staff would notice the water dropping close to the bottom nut on the gauge glasses which would have prompted them to either add more water or - most likely - to rake out the fires and get out before the water came over the top of the bulkhead.

For those who wonder why the boilers didn't explode in contact with cold seawater, the opposite is true. The steam inside the boiler steam space would cool rapidly and form a vacuum. This vacuum would gradually draw seawater into the space though leaking fittings or collapse the boiler - ie implode it. The boilers are built to withstand pressure not vacuum, but could probably manage it without implosion. If you doubt this implosion theory, there are many videos on YT showing the effect on a barrel filled with steam being sprayed by a water hose! The temperature of the boiler shell after the fires had been raked would be equivalent to the temperature corresponding to the steam pressure which was 215psi - this corresponds to a temperature of 200C or 394F - not so hot that it would cause cracking or implosion due to a cold water jet on the surface or even complete immersion - your car exhaust is hotter than that. The boilers could still have a vacuum in them to this day if they weren't so deep down and under some 800bar pressure - they certainly weren't built to withstand that! I wish they could bring one up so it could be inspected ...

Hope that answers your question trimmer_a!
 
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trimmer_a

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Feb 26, 2021
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The fires would have been raked out as the water came into each compartment. From the various movies and the inquiry, the fires in BR6 were the first to be raked out of course. The dampers were closed to avoid feeding air to the coal to keep it burning which would of course have added to the steam generation which was not needed.
These boilers had a massive steam reserve for the propulsion engines. To give an idea, the single ended boilers in BR1 were perfectly able to supply the whole hotel demand whilst the ship was in port, so could run as many main generators as was considered necessary. I doubt that all 4 would have been needed at any time, and there was usually at least one in reserve, maybe two. I haven't seen an electrical load estimate for the ship, so it's pure conjecture based on personal experience.
What this means is that the other boilers all banging away in BR 2-6 were supplying the main engines and the generators, which puts the amount of steam available into perspective, and shows why the safeties lifted for some time after the collision (as shown in the Cameron movie). This is the same as slamming your foot on the brake pedal but keeping the accelerator to the floor ... coal fired boilers were slow to respond to load changes, which is also why they didn't show much smoke underway at full speed, but filled the air with smoke when manoeuvring.
Going back to the boilers, I wouldn't think that it was necessary to keep fires in any of the boilers with the amount of steam they had available in BR2-4, with 5 for a certain time as well. They probably shut the stop valves on all the boilers at the after end to conserve steam, and only opened them as the steam pressure dropped - well, that's what I would have done!
Knowing that the end was nigh once BR4 flooded, and certainly after BR3 - though I don't know if they all flooded before the breakup or not - certainly BR2 was still unflooded and I would suspect BR3 was also clear to a certain extent.
Whilst the ship was underway at full sea revolutions, everything burning and turning, there were many auxiliaries that needed steam (everything was steam driven) and these include the huge seawater circulation pumps, the condenser air pumps, boiler feed pumps, drains pumps, refrigeration pumps and compressors, oil pumps etc etc. Once the main machinery was stopped, none of these needed to be working, so steam was conserved down to just that necessary to run either a main generator or, as I suspect, the two auxiliary generators which were accessible from the upper decks. That would leave only the auxiliary condenser in operation (which was used in port to supply the hotel load along with the BR1 boilers) plus its auxiliary air pump and seawater pump, which were quite small.

As for the boiler crowns (that being the name for the combustion chamber top) being uncovered as the water level fell either by usage of steam or the trim of the ship by the head, this would not be a problem without the fires being lit, and if they were lit, the boiler room staff would notice the water dropping close to the bottom nut on the gauge glasses which would have prompted them to either add more water or - most likely - to rake out the fires and get out before the water came over the top of the bulkhead.

For those who wonder why the boilers didn't explode in contact with cold seawater, the opposite is true. The steam inside the boiler steam space would cool rapidly and form a vacuum. This vacuum would gradually draw seawater into the space though leaking fittings or collapse the boiler - ie implode it. The boilers are built to withstand pressure not vacuum, but could probably manage it without implosion. If you doubt this implosion theory, there are many videos on YT showing the effect on a barrel filled with steam being sprayed by a water hose! The temperature of the boiler shell after the fires had been raked would be equivalent to the temperature corresponding to the steam pressure which was 215psi - this corresponds to a temperature of 200C or 394F - not so hot that it would cause cracking or implosion due to a cold water jet on the surface or even complete immersion - your car exhaust is hotter than that. The boilers could still have a vacuum in them to this day if they weren't so deep down and under some 800bar pressure - they certainly weren't built to withstand that! I wish they could bring one up so it could be inspected ...

Hope that answers your question trimmer_a!
Thank you for the detailed words Stephen. So far I understand everything (or rather the translation program) and I absolutely agree with everything.
My question or assumption was that with an inclination of about 12 degrees the ceiling of the fire box is exposed and this cannot be compensated for for long by adding water. The only solution = fire out. So sooner or later the lights will go out.

Correct, for the sole supply of the generators was easily enough for the five one-end boilers.
 
Nov 14, 2005
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The fires would have been raked out as the water came into each compartment. From the various movies and the inquiry, the fires in BR6 were the first to be raked out of course. The dampers were closed to avoid feeding air to the coal to keep it burning which would of course have added to the steam generation which was not needed.
These boilers had a massive steam reserve for the propulsion engines. To give an idea, the single ended boilers in BR1 were perfectly able to supply the whole hotel demand whilst the ship was in port, so could run as many main generators as was considered necessary. I doubt that all 4 would have been needed at any time, and there was usually at least one in reserve, maybe two. I haven't seen an electrical load estimate for the ship, so it's pure conjecture based on personal experience.
What this means is that the other boilers all banging away in BR 2-6 were supplying the main engines and the generators, which puts the amount of steam available into perspective, and shows why the safeties lifted for some time after the collision (as shown in the Cameron movie). This is the same as slamming your foot on the brake pedal but keeping the accelerator to the floor ... coal fired boilers were slow to respond to load changes, which is also why they didn't show much smoke underway at full speed, but filled the air with smoke when manoeuvring.
Going back to the boilers, I wouldn't think that it was necessary to keep fires in any of the boilers with the amount of steam they had available in BR2-4, with 5 for a certain time as well. They probably shut the stop valves on all the boilers at the after end to conserve steam, and only opened them as the steam pressure dropped - well, that's what I would have done!
Knowing that the end was nigh once BR4 flooded, and certainly after BR3 - though I don't know if they all flooded before the breakup or not - certainly BR2 was still unflooded and I would suspect BR3 was also clear to a certain extent.
Whilst the ship was underway at full sea revolutions, everything burning and turning, there were many auxiliaries that needed steam (everything was steam driven) and these include the huge seawater circulation pumps, the condenser air pumps, boiler feed pumps, drains pumps, refrigeration pumps and compressors, oil pumps etc etc. Once the main machinery was stopped, none of these needed to be working, so steam was conserved down to just that necessary to run either a main generator or, as I suspect, the two auxiliary generators which were accessible from the upper decks. That would leave only the auxiliary condenser in operation (which was used in port to supply the hotel load along with the BR1 boilers) plus its auxiliary air pump and seawater pump, which were quite small.

As for the boiler crowns (that being the name for the combustion chamber top) being uncovered as the water level fell either by usage of steam or the trim of the ship by the head, this would not be a problem without the fires being lit, and if they were lit, the boiler room staff would notice the water dropping close to the bottom nut on the gauge glasses which would have prompted them to either add more water or - most likely - to rake out the fires and get out before the water came over the top of the bulkhead.

For those who wonder why the boilers didn't explode in contact with cold seawater, the opposite is true. The steam inside the boiler steam space would cool rapidly and form a vacuum. This vacuum would gradually draw seawater into the space though leaking fittings or collapse the boiler - ie implode it. The boilers are built to withstand pressure not vacuum, but could probably manage it without implosion. If you doubt this implosion theory, there are many videos on YT showing the effect on a barrel filled with steam being sprayed by a water hose! The temperature of the boiler shell after the fires had been raked would be equivalent to the temperature corresponding to the steam pressure which was 215psi - this corresponds to a temperature of 200C or 394F - not so hot that it would cause cracking or implosion due to a cold water jet on the surface or even complete immersion - your car exhaust is hotter than that. The boilers could still have a vacuum in them to this day if they weren't so deep down and under some 800bar pressure - they certainly weren't built to withstand that! I wish they could bring one up so it could be inspected ...

Hope that answers your question trimmer_a!
Informative. Thanks for that write up. One question. Do you know how long the boilers would continue to make steam after the fires went out? I just mean a ball park figure if those boilers weren't cooled from external sources like flooding water. I know drum type boilers have a reserve thermal capacity. What I'm trying to ask is do you know if the fire went out on the last boiler would it still make steam to run the generators say another 10 minutes or so? Thanks again for the post. I don't really have much experience with drum boilers other than very small ones.
 

Stephen Carey

Member
Apr 25, 2016
164
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Philippines
Thank you for the detailed words Stephen. So far I understand everything (or rather the translation program) and I absolutely agree with everything.
My question or assumption was that with an inclination of about 12 degrees the ceiling of the fire box is exposed and this cannot be compensated for for long by adding water. The only solution = fire out. So sooner or later the lights will go out.

Correct, for the sole supply of the generators was easily enough for the five one-end boilers.
Yes, if there was a risk of a low level, they would have raked the fires out. Once that was done, uncovering the combustion chamber wouldn't have been dangerous.
 
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First of all I'm sorry if I am late to reply : I lost my little dog that I had for 15 years and she was practically a child to me : she was clever, maternal and she was present at the worst time of my life. The loss was terrible (and still is but far less) and I did not have much attention on nothing. My apologize.

To get back to the Titanic, I admit that I have read your writings rather briefly (I will take more time in the coming days, I promise) but in short, I have been badly translated. What I wanted to say was what would have happened to the wireless telegraphy and the electricity if the damage would have been done to the the stern and to the boilers room (1 and 2) ? Would they have lost all the electrical power from the entire ship as well as the wireless telegraphy ? Wold the TITANIC have sunk earlier ? Or would they have had something else that could have been saved them (I mean "time" of course because I know that the ship would have sunk anyway) like connecting fore boilers to supply electricity (if that can be done, obviously). That was my question. Hope it is clear :) Thankyou !
 
Nov 14, 2005
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First of all I'm sorry if I am late to reply : I lost my little dog that I had for 15 years and she was practically a child to me : she was clever, maternal and she was present at the worst time of my life. The loss was terrible (and still is but far less) and I did not have much attention on nothing. My apologize.

To get back to the Titanic, I admit that I have read your writings rather briefly (I will take more time in the coming days, I promise) but in short, I have been badly translated. What I wanted to say was what would have happened to the wireless telegraphy and the electricity if the damage would have been done to the the stern and to the boilers room (1 and 2) ? Would they have lost all the electrical power from the entire ship as well as the wireless telegraphy ? Wold the TITANIC have sunk earlier ? Or would they have had something else that could have been saved them (I mean "time" of course because I know that the ship would have sunk anyway) like connecting fore boilers to supply electricity (if that can be done, obviously). That was my question. Hope it is clear :) Thankyou !
No need to apologize. Anybody who ever had a dog that was your best friend understands. If boiler room no. 4 was still running then steam would still be supplied to the main dynamos. And if boiler rooms 3 & 5 were still going then the emergency dynamos would still run to. Plus I think as long as any of the boilers were still running they could have valve arraigned steam to the generators. Might take a little McGyver action but I'm sure they could have done it. Plus they always had the emergency gen set for the lower power transmitter. As to your question about the stern. I don't know. It would depend on the damage. But that does bring up a good question. Would the added weight of all the machinery in the stern cause her sink with less compartments flooded? Again don't know. I don't think Mr Halpern would mind me posting this pic of the boiler piping. If so I'll remove it. But its worth reading the whole article. Cheers.
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