William M Murdoch What Happened


Dec 8, 2000
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Crikey! Take a day off and it's gone from Benny Hill to the World Weekly News, excepting that this isn't particularly funny.

Teri wrote:


Quote:

If I hadn't doubted the information, I never would have taken the time to publicly post it.




Good on you, Teri. Let's bring this one into the cold, hard light of day and show it for the nasty little furphy it really is.
smile.gif


The Cyril Evans 'diary' again, oh my. As far as I was aware (and as Kerri wrote), Dave Billnitzer had well and truly laid this one to rest several years ago - others here would remember that too. Dave's work in exposing the 'diary' for the fraud it was should not be discounted lightly. If he does visit this thread to re-visit the 'diary' I hope he brings silver bullets and cloves of garlic with him this time.

Inger's posted some excellent material on why the 'mass suicide' scenario is extremely dubious bordering on the risible. As several others have posted, Inger has significant first hand research on Titanic's officers, their milieu and the merchant marine to her credit - just the person to examine this material and offer reasons as to why it isn't so, as well as refuting some of the potentially libelous statements. And this is without bringing in the eyewitness accounts of Eugene Daly, Carl Jansson and Georg Rheims who are quite specific in that they only saw one officer suicide. (A quick trawl of the material on Bill's site doesn't offer any support to the 'mass suicide'.)

I think Tracy, Kyrila and Kerri have all made excellent points on reading, research and asking questions. The day I stop reading and asking questions is the day I'm carried out in a wooden box!
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Thanks to Teri, Bill and Inger we're all able to ask questions of the information in the chat transcript, compare it with the historical record and then make up our own minds.

On that note, I would like to commend Inger on a job well done, and her generosity in sharing her (and Kerri's) considerable research in refuting this tale full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. Well done, Inger!

Cheers,
Fiona
 

Ben Holme

Member
Feb 11, 2001
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Hi Bill,

(Slightly off-topic here). I'd be interested to know how you arrived at the figure of 3 for the number of passengers buried from the Carpathia? I only know of William F. Hoyt (1st class) and Abraham Harmer (3rd class). Also, isn't it a theory that the "unknown firman" and Harmer were one and the same (the same man who died aboard boat B)?

Best Regards,
Ben
 

Beth Barber

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Jun 7, 2001
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I have been reading this thread since it started and I have not done much in the research of Titanic - except to read what ever I could find. There are a lot of questions out there.

I also read the "chat" that Mr. Wormstedt posted for Ms. Milch. I can only give my thoughts on the subject. I do find it hard to believe the conversation in itself. I can believe, of course, that the conversation was had but it seems like "Molly" isn't really sure of what she is saying. Some of the things don't sound right to me - and I have not done any research in depth at all on Titanic.

I am not sure if I believe in reincarnation (though I don't discount it and I do have an open mind), however, I do believe there are people who honestly believe in it and feel they are the re-incarnation of someone else. I do believe in some physics - the ones who don't profit from their "gift" and help police solve crimes, etc.... It certainly is hard to discount some of those people.

The info cited by "Molly" sure sounds far-fetched to me. I wouldn't necessarily believe someone, especially about some of the things alleged (esp. mass suicide being ordered by captain smith), if there wasn't proof positive. It will be interesting to see where this thread ends up.

Hope all is well with everyone. - Beth in SC
 

Kate Bortner

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May 17, 2001
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All I want to know is since when does an on-line chat with a stranger qualify as research?!
Oh please! Can't we end this ridiculous thread. Teri, do a little research before you voice you opinions as fact again and try listening for awhile so that you can ask questions that stem from a place of plausibility. Please. I'm tired of tuning in to ET-90210!!!!
 
May 8, 2001
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If someone has a "vision" but is not certain of the place or time, let alone who the person or people were, picking out someone that you "think" it is, is speculatory, and disrespectful not only to the relatives of these men, but to the researchers who are doing a great service by painstakingly putting forth the effort to make certain the facts are straight, so history is not mislead.
Someone will take this out of context, plaster it on the internet, and before long, it will weave itself in with the legend, or even better said by Inger as a "poisonous fairy tale".
I realize that the researchers time is very valuable, and allot of time has been used up on re-explaining what has already been debunked, but, as I am a newcomer, I would like to give a special bit of thanks to the researchers who went over it again.
Colleen
 
Mar 3, 1998
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Just for fun, I went back to the original question which started this thread:

A couple of weeks ago, a friend and I were speculating over what might have happened to First Officer Murdoch the night the ship sank…Could (Collapsible B) have not fallen on Murdoch, killing or rendering him helpless?

By way of answer, I'll quote from the only survivor who 1) witnessed Murdoch's last moment aboard the ship and 2) was familiar enough with Murdoch to recognise him by sight in dim lighting conditions (extracted from Second Officer Lightoller's testimony in London on 21 May):

14048. And coming over to the starboard side on the roof of the Officers' quarters, could you see any other Officers? - I saw the First Officer working at the falls of the starboard emergency boat, obviously with the intention of overhauling them and hooking on to the collapsible boat on their side.
14051. Were there others with him helping? - There were a number round there helping.
14052. Then what happened? - Well, she seemed to take a bit of a dive, and I just walked into the water.
14767. And Mr. Murdoch? - Mr. Murdoch I saw practically at the actual moment that I went under water.
14768. Can you tell me where he was? - He was then working at the forward fall on the starboard side forward; that is the fall to connect to the collapsible boat.
14769. What was the last you saw of Mr. Moody? - I do not remember seeing Mr. Moody that night at all, though I am given to understand, from what I have gathered since, that Mr. Moody must have been standing quite close to me at the same time. He was on top of the quarters clearing away the collapsible boat on the starboard side, whilst Mr. Murdoch was working at the falls. If that is so, we were all practically in the water together.

Lightoller's story is remarkably consistent…over a month before, he had stated under oath in America:

Mr. LIGHTOLLER. Of course, I saw Mr. Murdoch there when finally I had finished on the port side.
Senator SMITH. You went to the starboard side?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER. On top; yes, sir.
Senator SMITH. For the purpose of lowering this -
Mr. LIGHTOLLER. I went over to see if I could assist.
Senator SMITH. And you saw him there?
Mr. LIGHTOLLER. I saw him there.

In a private letter to Murdoch's widow, written on 24 April, Lightoller stated:

I deeply regret that I missed communicating with you by last mail to refute the reports that were spread in the newspapers. I was practically the last man, and certainly the last officer, to see Mr. Murdoch. He was then endeavouring to launch the starboard forward collapsible boat. I had already got mine from off the top of our quarters. You will understand when I say that I was working the port side of the ship, and Mr. Murdoch was principally engaged on the starboard side of the ship, filling and launching the boats. Having got my boat down off the top of the house, and there being no time to open it, I left it and ran across to the starboard side, still on top of the quarters. I was then practically looking down on your husband and his men. He was working hard, personally assisting, overhauling the forward boat's fall. At this moment the ship dived, and we were all in the water. Other reports as to the ending are absolutely false. Mr. Murdoch died like a man, doing his duty.

Colonel Gracie did not witness Murdoch's end, but his testimony before the Senator Smith on 30 April demonstrates that Lightoller told him (presumably aboard Carpathia) the same story he would tell in London:

Mr. GRACIE. Soon after that the water came up on the boat deck…We were in a sort of cul-de-sac which was formed by the cabin and the bridge, the structure that is right on the boat deck. We were right in this cul-de-sac. I have a diagram here which may explain the position better. The top of the page is the bow (indicating on diagram), and on the right, or on the starboard side, is where this last boat that I speak of was, where the first officer, Murdoch, was at work trying to launch the boat…Officer Lightoller tells me that at the same time he was on the bridge deck, where I have marked it "L", and that the first officer, Murdoch, was about 15 feet away, where you see that boat near the davits there.

Taken at face value, we have a definitive and consistent account of Murdoch's last moments aboard Titanic, as provided by an eyewitness who knew the man by sight. Naturally, Lightoller's account is only as true as you want it to be. Some doubt Lightoller's veracity, but I personally have never heard an argument convincing enough to make me believe that he was telling anything other than the truth. So, by way of answer to the original question, that's my opinion.

Parks

P.S. If interested in this topic, you should run, not walk, to Bill Wormstedt's site (http://home.att.net/~wormstedt/titanic/shots.html), if you haven't already. Read the various accounts and decide for yourself.
 
Dec 6, 2000
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Boy, if I could get a nickel for every person being directed to my site ....... :)

Re: The 3 passengers supposedly buried from the Carpathia. All the data I have, is from two secondary sources, Titanic: Triumph & Tragedy by Eaton & Haas, and Sinking of the Titanic by Logan Marschall. Now, I'm not saying this data is all 'proven without a doubt', just that these are the references I have:

1. Abraham Harmer, 3rd class, listed in Sinking of the Titanic as Hormer.
2. William Hoyt, 1st class, listed in both books. Recovered alive by Lowe in #14.
3. Edvard Lindell, 3rd class, listed in Triumph & Tragedy, from Collapsible A.

The references from Triumph & Tragedy are on page 180. Don't bother trying to find 'em in the index, as the book contains tons of data not indexed at all.

Ben, I hadn't heard the rumor that Harmer & the unknown fireman may be one and the same. I'm not saying they aren't, just that I hadn't heard that before.
 
Jan 21, 2001
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Hi all:

Teri did indeed contact me privately in the last day or two, and I already replied to her privately. In one sentence, I will simply confirm what Inger, Kerri, Fiona and others here have already asserted regarding Cyril Evans's alleged diary.

For those of you who want to know more, here is the pertinent part of my reply to Teri:

* * * * *

Regarding Evans's diaries.

A person who attempted to convince several of us a few years ago that she had found the 'unpublished diaries' of Cyril Evans specifically said two things regarding them that were easily disproved. First she said the diaries had been stored at the Chamber of Commerce (in Liverpool, I think it was) for safekeeping. Inquiries over the course of a month to that organization revealed that there were no such diaries in their possession, and they were astonished that anyone had made the suggestion.

The second point was that the originator of that story also claimed at one point on another Titanic message board that Evans committed suicide in the 1920s. (I knew nothing of this other board at that time, but joined soon afterwards.) She wrote me privately asking what I knew of Evans after 1912, and in the course of that correspondence, I learned about this particular Titanic board. Anyway, when I told her that Evans actually died in the late 1950s of a heart attack, she went back to the other board, 'corrected' her story, and said she had been confused, or misunderstood, or something like that. It seemed to me that she was inventing tales, possibly to satisfy her own romantic needs, or perhaps, to gain some notoriety of her own; who knows.

One other bit of business. This next part was all conducted in private emails. When I asked her where she heard the story about Evans's alleged suicide, and who had confused her, her story changed. First it was from Evans's family around the Liverpool area; when I asked for particulars on how I might contact them, wishing to add information to my own Californian site, these family sources were suddenly to be found not in Liverpool, but in Germany, and she suggested that any corroboration would be difficult because of translation, etc. I told her that I was once fluent in German, having lived there for a summer when I was in high school and studied it for five years, speaking it with my grandparents, and so on, and that I was willing to conduct my correspondence in German, she stopped responding to my inquiries.

So that's all I know about the Evans diaries and his alleged suicide. His death should be confirmed easily enough via a search of the obituaries around July 1959.

As to Mr. Robinson.

I have not met or interviewed him, but I think you are referring to an "Ernie Robinson" whose interview was used on a different website to bolster the idea that it was Moody and not Murdoch who committed suicide. Mr. Robinson supposedly was given that information by Harold Bride. What I recall from having read it (the website, that is - DB), is that the interview gave details which were at variance with Bride's 1912 versions; specifically that he (Bride) was with Murdoch on the starboard side at Collapsible A; as we know, Bride actually was swept off from the port side (as told to the NY Times, the US Inq and the BR Inq), and ended up on Collapsible B.

The author of that site has not (to my knowledge) shared the transcripts of his interview with Mr. Robinson with other Titanic researchers, and by withholding it, has naturally left himself and his claims open to skepticism.

I have no idea as to Mr. Robinson's mental condition, either current or past.

* * * * *

Teri can confirm that the above is a verbatim response to her email, along with some private thoughts about the Murdoch suicide, and the Dalbeattie site, neither of which I have time to go into here.

Teri, I live in Pasadena (well, Altadena) and if I can find my original correspondence with the Liverpool CoC and the ensuing email exchanges with "Aurora," I will be glad to show them to you sometime. I might not have saved when I moved last year, but if I do still have them, and you'd like to see them, I am willing to share them with you.

Dave Billnitzer
Altadena CA
and a mere half-mile from Pasadena
 
Mar 3, 1998
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Bill,

That's what you get for taking on the unenviable task of collecting suicide accounts. You should post an ad banner on the site so that you can get that nickle. :)

Parks
 
Apr 7, 2001
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Hi Dave!

Wow! I got me a Titanic Researcher/Enthusiast just a half a mile away??? Very Cool!!!! I love it! Yes Dave, I'd love to come over and see whatcha got... (and Stacie lives just 15 minutes away!) I'll email you my cell no.

Well, it seems as if ole Molly might have extended the truth a bit or gotten her information mixed up about the Evans diaries. There are none to be found as of the date of this writing. And well if anyone knows about the mental state of Mr. Ernie Robinson, please advise us via this thread.

I don't know whatever happened to Ilya...

So ~ (drum roll...) Congratulations Inger, on a job well done. Thank you for pointing me in the direction of Dave B. And thank you Dave B., for coming to ET and posting. I was going to post your letter tonight but you actually beat me to it. I had to stop and do some grocery shopping on my way home. Yuk. So thanks again for responding to my email and I look forward to meeting you soon. (maybe you'll make it to one of the L.A. Gatherings, eh?)

Bill,

I want to thank you very much for lending space on your website so that others could read the chat. But can we take it down now? If anyone ever comes to this site at a much later date and wishes to see the chat, please email me and I shall send it out right away.

Parks,

I hope to meet you too, at the next L.A. Gathering tentatively in December. (You probably look dashing in a white sailor's suit.
mad.gif
)

Humbly Trying to Sign Off This Thread,

Teri
 

Inger Sheil

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Dec 3, 2000
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Teri - Ilya is studying for his deck certifications and a degree in marine transportation (he's switching from the engine department), and has an extremely heavy course load that prevents him from taking a more active part in on-line discussion.

I can confirm what Dave has said above about Ernie Robinson (whom I seem to have been haphazzardly referring to as 'Robinson' and 'Robertson' throughout this thread) not having shared the full transcript of his Bride and Boxhall interviews with Molly Lemmer, Richard Edkins, myself or anyone else. I have a friend and colleague based in Kew who is in regular contact with him who has physically seen the notes, although she does not possess copies of them herself. Those individuals who have spoken to Ernie Robinson (Richard Edkins and the other, independent researcher I've worked with) confirm that Mr Robinson has never said that there was any mention of Moody in the interviews. This was an error on the part of Richard Edkins, who inadvertantly conflated material from Molly Lemmer with what Ernie Robinson had told him before he was made aware of the latter's extreme unreliability.

Whether variations in the story he was apparently told by Bride originated with Mr Robinson or with Bride himself is something I couldn't comment on - interviews given many years after the event are notoriously unreliable. I have been given notes and comments on the interviews, but these are brief and by no means transcripts.

Regarding Mr Robinson's health and mental state, the two people I have contacted by email (Mr Edkins) and by phone yesterday (the woman based near London who prefers to remain anonymous) who are both in regular contact with him confirmed that while Mr Robinson's health is occasionally poor (as you might imagine he is quite an elderly man now), he is perfectly sane and clear headed.

Hopefully now Dave has put a stake through the heart of the Cyril Evans diary once and for all, and I hope that we will not see the Robinson interviews mis-cited as a source for the 'Moody with a head wound' yarn ever again.

I agree with Fi that hopefully by getting all this out in the open this particularly nasty boil of a story has been lanced. I think Kate is absolutely correct - watching this unfold has been like waiting for the latest installment of a twisted soap opera! As Colleen said, there has always been the danger that someone would pick up on the material posted in the chat and mistakenly use it as 'fact' - the fact that we're still having to combat this unadulterated rubbish several years after it originated in the imagination of one woman indicates how persistent it is.

It is my personal wish that we did know what happened in the final moments of each of the men named in this dark story. But we're much in the same position as the Moody family were in 1912 when they, too, followed up every possible lead in their efforts to discover what had happened to him at the end of his too-brief life. One of the saddest documents I've seen, which I cite in an article I have coming up for publication in March, is a letter responding to one of their queries for information. It notifies them with regret that the organisation contacted has no information about what happened to James Moody. The efforts of his family to discover the truth about the immediate period leading up to his death, like our own efforts to date, came to nothing.

~ Inger
 
Apr 7, 2001
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Hello Inger,

So that is where Ilya is ~ busy with his his deck certifications. Thanks for letting me know. And thanks for updating me on Ernie Robinson's health and the interviews he has in his possession.

Yes hopefully Dave has put a stake through the heart of the Cyril Evans diary matter and from now on the Board has a place to point people should anyone ever ask about the Cyril Evans diaries or a Murdoch suicide, or a Moody suicide or any other suicide. Any updated/new information can always be posted here too if anyone likes.

Thank you once again, Inger, for pointing me in the direction of Dave B. and for your dedication to researching Titanic matters. As they say ~ My hat is off to you.

Very Sincerely,

Teri
 

Ben Holme

Member
Feb 11, 2001
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Hi Bill,

Thanks for those references. Lindell was the one I was unsure about. I note that Eaton & Haas' other book, "Journey Through Time" also lists Lindell among those buried from the Carpathia. I had always believed he was simply lifted over the side of Col A to increase its buoyancy. Could be wrong.

Regards,
Ben
 

Inger Sheil

Member
Dec 3, 2000
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Hallo Teri -

I wouldn't be surprised if we see Ilya back here soonishly, should his academic work load permit (and should celebrations on the day he hits the big four-oh not get too out of hand). I know he gets somewhat frustrated that his studies mean he has little time for research and discussion, although at least it's not quite as bad as when he's at sea and we miss his company for weeks or even months! It's a terrible shame, as when he does have the time to post he has a wonderful insight into maritime practices both in 1912, today, and any period of time in between.

I hope some of my own more terse responses in this thread won't discourage you from your own research on the question of what happened to the Titanic's officers. My reaction stemmed primarily from a sense of tremendous frustration that these rumours, particularly those regarding Moody, have refused to die despite their lack of a factual basis. I've been asked more times than I care to recall if Moody was seen in the water with an injury to his head, and it has become not a little exasperating to see that the person with whom this originated is still misleading individuals, such as yourself, the same way she has others (including me) in the past.

There are many people who have put a good deal of work into investigating and assessing what material there is regarding the final minutes of life for the deck officers who perished, as Bill's website demonstrates. However, in spite of all the sources that have been examined - from contemporary newspaper accounts and letters to rumours recorded years after the events - we still cannot say with certitude how any of these men died. The answers might always elude us, but if you or others in the field would also care to turn their hand to researching it, critically collecting and assessing material, we might get closer to finding out what happened.

And that - the constant questioning, collecting, and analyising of data, actively seeking and putting the pieces together, it what research is all about (says she highly pompously in full-blown pontification mode - believe it or not, I don't take myself even half as seriously as I sound like I do
mad.gif
).

Regards,

Inger
 
Dec 2, 2000
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Easley South Carolina
>>I wouldn't be surprised if we see Ilya back here soonishly, should his academic work load permit <<

Hi Inger...would it help if we hung Atilla the Teacher up on the yardarm by his drawers? Ilya seemed to find the idea most appealing when we discussed the matter in chat several weeks ago.
proud.gif


Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
 
Jan 21, 2001
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Hi all:

Ah, the memories... They glow like the "aurora borealis" in my mind.

Teri, if I may so, listen to what Inger, Kerri and others are warning you about this particular individual. Your own instincts are leading you to question her statements; trust your instincts. The concern here is not so much about her religious or personal beliefs; it is about her *credibility.* Alarms go off when she says things like this:

==>>Molly (3:59:14 PM): I still have Cyril's journal on disk... Don't have the entry he wrote about meeting Lucy anymore but I remember enough of it. Could probably rewrite it. <<==

By her own admission, she is willing to rewrite a supposedly historic document. Something similar happened when she first introduced the Evans diary topic, and his fictional deliberate non-response to Titanic's CQD. Her opening remark went something like this (paraphrasing here, but I am sure the others will remember it):

"This all real, and oh-so-true. I was literally ill when I read it. Do you honestly think I would make up something like this?"

Her own voice became the first accusation against her credibility! That should tell you something.

One other incident with her comes to mind. In a well-known picture of Jack Phillips and an unidentified wireless operator standing in front of a lifeboat, and taken on board the Adriatic by Father Browne, she insisted that the unknown operator was Harold Bride.

Ken Marshall had proven years previously that the ship could not have been the Titanic; George Behe, Inger, Kerri and others repeatedly offered that information to her and she refused to accept it. Once I even pointed her to photos of Titanic's lifeboats so she could compare the Adriatic lifeboat with Titanic's, and thereby repeat for herself the work that Ken Marshall had done, and *still* she insisted it had to be Harold Bride and the Titanic.

I will give her this much - she provides a certain amount of entertainment value for a while, but it gets old pretty quickly, and her contribution to accurate history is nil.

Dave Billnitzer
Altadena CA
 

George Behe

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Dec 11, 1999
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Hi, Dave!

Nice to see you again, old chap! I hope you'll stick around and continue to share your expertise with us -- your presence on the board would be a definite boon.

Ahh, yes -- the aurora over Dalbeattie; talk about memories (and laughs.) :)

Take care, old chap. (By the way, I hope you're still as nefarious as you used to be.) :)

All my best,

George
 
Sep 28, 2009
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Hi Dave!

Thanks for stopping by to verify this for us- and I do hope that this will well and truly be the end of it all (Fi was right... did you bring the garlic, wooden stake and silver bullets??)
happy.gif


I will give her this much - she provides a certain amount of entertainment value for a while, but it gets old pretty quickly, and her contribution to accurate history is nil.

I'll agree with that statement to a point. I don't really see her contribution to accurate history as nil, but rather running quite deeply into the red! It disturbs me that there are people out there who, not knowing any better, hear of this fantasy and believe it to be true. The "author" of this Mary Sue fiction is doing a monstrous disservice to many people: those who are trying to learn, historians who have invested a lot of time, effort and funds to piece history together, and, most notably, the innocent people who lost their lives in the disaster as well as their families who were also victims.

As Inger pointed out in a previous post, to accuse EJ Smith of ordering his crew to suicide is abhorrent. To accuse Cyril Evans of what amounts to the murder of approximately 1500 people because of feelings of hatred or jealousy sickens me. To accuse Joseph Boxhall- who was so haunted by the tragedy that he requested his ashes be scattered over the site- of seeing the supposedly injured James Moody nearby in the water and failing to render any assistance is ludicrous. All of these accusations are- naturally- levied against men who are no longer here to defend themselves. And to what end? To spin a "poisonous fairy tale" (thanks, Inger, that sums it up nicely) in which the author herself has a 'starring role' at the expense of the truth and the reputations of the men concerned.

The events surrounding the sinking of Titanic were quite dramatic enough, thank you very much. I see no need to turn those events into a tawdry soap opera just to gratify one person's twisted and juvenile fantasies. To do so only makes a mockery of the lives that were lost, changed forever, or destroyed. Perhaps I'm simplistic, but to me, such an act is unforgivable and I cannot condemn it harshly enough. I desperately want to see this detrius put on the rubbish heap once and for all, where it can keep company with the likes of Rigel and dog, the "swapping theory", "no pope", and the mummy.

Regards,
Kerri
 
Jan 21, 2001
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Hi Kerri!

I do agree with your issues above. What you point out is the danger that such a person presents to those who are on the lookout for good and reliable information, and don't know where to turn. Maybe I place too much faith in the reader's common sense and his/her ability to separate reasonable conclusions from absurdity. I certainly never dreamed that Evans's diary would come to life again. Garlic and silver bullets indeed. Wasn't she writing a book on "Harry and the boys" at one time? I cannot imagine anyone taking it seriously; if her past activities are any indication, she is going to have a difficult time convincing very many of the veracity of her "research."

But Kerri, you're right: she is dangerous if she is taken seriously. I guess I never considered that anybody would or could take her so.

I put her work (I hesitate to even use the word - let's call it her "inventions") in the same league as the CBS mini-series, or the numerous romantic novels that utilized Titanic as a backdrop. Mindless drivel, but hardly to be taken seriously. I *hope* that most readers would be able to separate fact from fiction. Those that don't take the time to dig deeper, or don't want to know anything beyond the banal... well, we can't take responsibility for them anyway. All we can do is learn from each other, keep pushing forward the best information we have, and help those who are determined to find it.

Again, Teri, just so I am clear - I have no issue with anyone's religious or personal beliefs. It's when those are used in a tautologic fashion to "prove" an event that otherwise has no corroboration that I refuse to accept it. I suspect you were having doubts yourself; it seemed that way reading through your chat with her. Add to that the outright false information and her changing excuses, ehrr... explanations - the Liverpool CoC, the lifeboats, the Evans family suddenly relocating to Germany, etc - and you get a fairly complete picture of her methods.


Hi George!

As always, good to see you here, too. As for my nefarious side, just give it time, I am sure it will come to the surface all on its own. Just point me in the direction of some Lordites (with a wink at Traci) :).

Dave Billnitzer
Altadena CA
 
Apr 7, 2001
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Inger,

Thank you for the words of encouragement in my continuing efforts to research Titanic matters. I shall do my very best.

I can understand your frustration especially having to keep repeating yourself with the Moody question. Hopefully this thread will handle that.

I really liked what you said about "the constant questioning, collecting, and analyzing of data" because that exactly describes my passion on and off the Board ~ collecting and analyzing data. How I love to do that.

"says she highly pompously in full-blown pontification mode - believe it or not, I don't take myself even half as seriously as I sound like I do."

Well it's good to see a bit of your sense of humor! I like it! Show some more of it, Inger! Show some more!
happy.gif


Well, I shall continue to familiarize myself with the Officers of Titanic.

Very Sincerely,

Teri
 

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