Women to A deck


Pat Cook

Member
Apr 26, 2000
1,277
6
313
Well, here's another poser from Lawrence Beesley, which I would appreciate any help I can get with...to...find... Anybody know this?!

"The men fell back and the women retired below to get into the boats from the next deck. Two women refused to leave their husbands at first, but partly by persuasion and partly by force they were separated from them and sent down to the next deck."

Anyone out there know any examples of brides sent from the boat deck down to A? Also, can you give me your sources? Very much appreciated.

Warmest regards,
Cook
 
Dec 31, 2000
676
14
263
Dearest Cook,
I am currently reading Beesley and there are many items that I have questions about. I have them underlined, and once I have finished reading, I will ask about them online.
Your question is one of them.
I wonder if he was reffering to the situation of boat 4? (I think) I know that Mrs. JJ Astor was loaded through one of the windows on A deck. I believe that it was said that they even placed a deck chair from the window ledge to the boat to help the women cross. (there was a delay getting into the boat because the window was locked and a crew member had to find a key and unlock it) I believe I read this in Lightoller's account. I believe there is also something about it in Col, Gracies book. Far as I know, a whole group of women were persuaded to go down to A deck to get their boat.
(4, I think). (boat left at 1:55 am?)
This is the only example that I can think of off hand where the women were sent from the boat deck to A deck.

What else have you found "interesting" about Beesley's account?

Beverly
 

Pat Cook

Member
Apr 26, 2000
1,277
6
313
Beverly wrote: "What else have you found "interesting" about Beesley's account?"

Hi Beverly - have you got about a month?

Thanks for the tip on Madeleine Astor - I had overlooked her entirely. I found Mrs. J Stuart White who testified that she was on the boat deck and told to go down to B deck and then up to A again (her account - however, I believe she - like Beesley - thought the top deck was A, as she states she was on the 'upper' deck and then went down to B and up to A 'again'.

There's also a bit of the time element here - Beesley's boat (13) got off (by most accounts) around 1:30 - consequently, this event had to take place before then.

Let me know if there's anything else in his account I may be able to help you with - not saying I CAN, mind you, but I will try.

Thanks again,

Best regards,
Cook
 
Mar 20, 2000
3,107
33
323
Hey Cook,

My gal Edith Russell cannot be considered a "bride" (although possibly she was something near it if the rumors of her fling with Ismay are true!
happy.gif
). But anyway all her accounts bear out that at some point early on she was among the group on the forward port side that was ordered up to the boat deck from A deck and then down again. Like Mrs. Thayer (was it?) she got exasperated but in her case she was so mad she left the crowd there on A and went to sit in the lounge.

When the silly dear finally thought better of it she ended up back on the boat deck but on starboard and at the aft boats where Ismay was directing ladies down a stairwell. She was sent flying down the stairs by Ismay when he noticed her there and she got into boat 11 which was loading from the A deck rail.

Beesley would have been in this milieu don't you think? It would almost certainly have been this same stairwell/ladder that the ladies you refer to would have gone down to get into boats 9 and/or 11, unless 13 and 15 also took people from A.

By the way, old Edy was also under the impression that the boat deck was "A" and the promenade below was "B." Seems to have been a common misunderstanding.

Sounds Beesley is coming right along. He's in good hands, that's for sure.

All my best,

Randy

EDITH RUSSELL, 1920.
Photographed by Arnold Genthe, New York
 
Mar 10, 1998
1,128
6
313
Randy,
Talk about photographer touch-up! Genthe could have made Rosie O'Donnell look like Dolly Parton if that is really Old Edy :).

Phil
 
Sep 26, 1999
711
2
263
Was she really that bad looking? Seems like she looked and dressed nicely when she was on the set for "A Night To Remember". And whats this I hear about her living in poor conditions at the time of her death? I thought she was supposed to be a wealthy lady.
 
Dec 31, 2000
676
14
263
Dearest Cook,
You are right, it will take at least a month for us to discuss the writings of Beesley, some are very insightful, others are skeptacle in my mind, but of course, my memory has CRS syndrome.

Onto boat 4, I believe that it was finally lowered so much later because of the "locked" promanade window issue I was telling you about. I believe that boat 4 was lowered to A deck much earlier and then when found the windows were locked, someone sent the ladies back up to the boat deck, and THEN back down again when someone was sent to get a key to unlock them, thus the delay in departure from the ship.

And "Randy to the Rescue" once again provides insightful evidence from his account of cherished Edy. Thank you Randy.

Told you I had CRS.

Beverly
happy.gif
 
Mar 20, 2000
3,107
33
323
Phil,

Genthe used a soft focus lens and probably did do some touch ups but the nose, mouth and chin area in that picture make it unmistakably our Edy. She was only about 40-41 in this shot, somewhat younger than we're used to. And some of her other pictures are even more flattering, as you know. That one you've got of her in the silver fox is the best I've ever seen. But her looks don't much matter to me, I guess; she was an extraordinary woman, pretty or not.

Geoff, don't even bother about Genthe. I think even Disney would have trouble depicting you!
happy.gif


Darren, as far as I can tell, Edith Russell was not poor at the time of her death but lived in a rather messy apartment. As time has gone by descriptions of her living conditions have become exaggerated. I think she was what we'd term a "pack-rat." And it was only at the very end that she lost interest in her personal upkeep because before, even in all that clutter, accounts (and photos) I've found confirm she was always very neatly dressed and groomed and that the sitting area where she received visitors was clean and quite elegant. Edy outlived her family and most of her friends and was lonely in her extreme old age. Phil Gowan will know best as to her precise age (which has been in dispute for years)but she lived to be at least 95.

And Bev, where IS that profile shot you have promised us. Stop being modest and show us those Jackie O pearls!

Oh, wait, Cook is..."gunna get riled up at us whipper-snappers fer takin' over this here Beesley thread will all this gibberish. So we best clear outta Dodge; I hear Cook a-ridin' up now..." (Sorry the Texan in me just leaped out!)

Best to all,

Randy
 
Dec 7, 2000
1,348
14
313
40 - 41!!!!????? Edy in that picture looks 20 something. Those touch-ups must have worked magic!

Cook,

About Mrs. Stuart, she was in a cabin on C deck, and as she never ventured out, she never remembered her cabin number, however she did correctly remember she was on C deck. So perhaps she knew which was the B and which the A deck ... perhaps not, I guess there would be no need to send the passengers to B deck, and she after all did mix up the decks.

Daniel.
 

Pat Cook

Member
Apr 26, 2000
1,277
6
313
First, thanks to everyone for your help.

Randy, nice tip on our lady Edith! Can you cite a specific source - any particular newspaper article or printed work for her?

Sorry to be a bit late on the uptake here - working on a bit of a deadline.

Best regards, all around,
Cook
 
Mar 20, 2000
3,107
33
323
Cook,

I'll e-mail you the references I have. The main one is the Home Companion article she did but there are a few earlier sources too. I'll be in touch.

Randy
 

Inger Sheil

Member
Feb 9, 1999
5,343
67
398
G'day the Cook -

Don't know if it's of any assistance, but the following is from Nellie Walcroft's letter to the Maidenhead Advertiser dated 29/4/1912:

People were going up on deck so we both went, carrying our belts from E deck. A man took the lifebelts from us and put them over our heads and tied them on. The order was given for women and children to go on the lower deck but there was such a lot he told some to go up on the boat deck, so we went.

Source is, of course, the Dowdings' splendid 'Clear to America by Titanic and Beyond'.

~ Ing
 
Jul 9, 2000
58,657
864
563
Easley South Carolina
Books on the loo? I havn't gotten quite that overloaded, but I'm working on it. I have three more on order, two dealing with the design histories of U.S. warships (One dealing with small combatants and the other with amphibious warfare ships) The third title I have on order is Anthony Prestons "The World's Worst Warships." That one should be good for some comic relief!

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
 

Similar threads

Similar threads