Would Titanic had done better to keep on steaming


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Dear Gary,
I am clearly no expert at anything except cheesecake recipes on this board, but I have read a lot and heard many great folks on this board.

As I have come to understand it, the ship (Titanic) was compromised at the bow end not the stern end of the ship. It is my understanding that in the time between iceberg impact and the time of assessment of damage that the water had already compromised more than 4 compartments and that the water had risen at least as high as the mail room.

If the watertightness had been "watertight compartments" and not "watertight bulkhead doors" perhaps it would make a difference. But the bow was already laden with water and was beginnning to sink bringing it lower and more water.....

The Californian was to the north east of Titanic and Titanic was traveling south west nearly due west. If they were headed toward the Californian as the mystery ship in an effort to reach her, they were going the wrong way to catch her. But I do not wish to enter a debate on that.


It is my belief that given all the facts that the crew had at their disposal at the time, that the Titanic Crew made the best possible choice in stopping to evacuate the passengers to life boats.

One thing that is critical to remember here too in regards to coming to the rescue is that travels times today are in nanoseconds at times. Even rescue vehicles for the recent Russina Submarine were there within a short time. But in the speeds of 1912, a ship lying 10 miles away would require about an hour of travel to reach a vessel, if they left for it the instant that they knew what to do and where to go. And with the icy waters and limited time for rescue before the Titanic sunk...perhaps more would have been saved, but judging from some of the testimonies about people refusing to leave the warmth of Titanic. Maybe more would have died cause hey wouyld have been waiting to board the warmer, bigger ship on its way than to enter a stupid little tiny lifeboat. Who knows?

Michael Standart, along with others on another thread have helped me to undertstand some very technical stuff regarding this situation. I hope that this sharing is helpful.

But know this, once I argued with someone on this board about the flow of the currents in a particular area of the world. It was Erik Wood and I later discovered he is a sea captain...I was so embarrssed and he never came down hard on me. So, I am the hard headed one they warned you about.
Maureen.
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Hello Gary, and bear in mind that NO suction could have been created by moving forward or in reverse. The pressure of the water outside was far greater then the air pressure inside. Had the ship been moving in any direction, the flow of water along the side would have increased the pressure, not decreased it, and the openings would in effect have acted like a ramscoop.

With a maximum pumping capacity of 1700 tons per hour, the most the pumps on the Titaic did was buy them a little time. In light of the volumn of water coming in, they were badly overmatched. The damage consisted of intermittent breaks, cracks and split seams spread out over three hundred feet of the ship's length and leaving fully six compartments open to the sea right from the very start.

Mo, who said you were hard headed? I've never noticed any such. A little point of information you may want to know, when the Titanic stopped, she was oriented in a northernly direction. A fact which tends to give some credence to the veiws that some manuevering was ordered and attempted after the collision.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
 
Dear Michael,
Me hardheaded? My mom, my dad, my sister, my brother, my boss,...oh you meant here on the board...well let's see there's...Michael, Randy, Shelley, Phil, Lilya and her twin Ilya....and then there's Dean with the suction sling shot thing with the Postal Service ....stop....oh what does rhetorical mean.....ahhhh.

Thanks for the orientation Michael and thanks for your vote of confidence. I gues what I was trying to say is that if The Californian was going towards a moving target (Titanic) and it was moving in a southwesterly direction and they were head east north east then they were going the wrong way. But I do remember our dicussion on the way Titanic was facing, that I think that maybe you , Dean and possibly randy and I had somewhere on this Board somewhere.

Thanks so much for helping me out. By the way, Randy's mom made the cheescake and he enjoyed it. It was nice to hear.
Maureen.
 
Mmmmmm...if memory serves, the Californian was oriented in a generally south eastern direction, but I could be mistaken on that. The Californian being hove to for the night, the only way she was moving was with the ocean current.

I haven't had a chance to make that cheesecake yet. Things have been kind of odd here with the shifts we work. By the way, would a dash of lemon juice work with this recipe? I intend to give it a try when things settle down some.(To say nothing of topping it with blueberries or cherries.)

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
 
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Hey there Michael.
Have no idea about the lemon juice thingy. I would try it the way it is written first and then experiment with later versions and see.

Fresh Blueberries go great with the recipe.

But back to Californian. Somewhere way back up there on this thread someplace someone ventured a question of whether or not it would have done any good to keep moving...more precisely to keep moving towards the "light" that the Titanic saw.

All I was trying to point out was that if the Titanic had hit the iceberg and if they had made the decision to continue forward rather than stop (I also agree that this was unwise), but if they had done this and if they were moving towards the "light" that they saw. They would have been heading towards either a "mystery Ship" or The Californian. And if the ship the Titanic saw was the Californian and if the Californian then had seen the Titanic heading and travel to catch up with them in order to save the distressed ship. And if this had all happened, The Californian being about 10 miles away and Californian s top speed was about what 14-15 knots, then it would have taken all of the time to do this.

This was all based on the suposition that it would have been better for the titanic to keep going. My personal opinion is that it would have failed miserbly and I think that the crew of the Titanic made the best decision.

Now, you can take up that collection for my brain transplant. Cause I know this makes no sense.
(But I think we are on the same side of this...scarey isn;t it). And this of course does not take into account my point above that I feel that the engines surely would have exploded. And also no time to get life boats out to the ship prior to sinking.
Glad you are such an understanding guy to put up with me Michael!
Maureen.
 
No need for the collection. There's nothing wrong with the brain you have.

There is a bit of a pucker factor as to the location of the Californian in regards to distance. I'm of the opinion that they were a lot closer then 10 miles. 5 to 7 at best. Some of the so-called pro-lordite faction, as you well know, are of the conterary opinion. (Shrug).in any event, I'm not going to get back into that little furfight as the extent of the damage known even then renders the point moot.

With water thundering in as quickly as it was, they knew the damage was severe, even if they couln't possibly know the details we do today. Knowing that, (and with no way of knowing how much internal structural damage was done,) they understood that any further manuevering would have been foolhardy.

I'll give those blueberries a shot. Fresh if I can get them, but they way the produce section has been at the local Bi-Lo, I may have to go for the canned stuff.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
 
Canned is also excellent...even stuff like the pie filling topping sort is great. I hope you enjoy it Michael.

And thanks for your vote of confidence on my brain cells.

And I agree with you on the status of what was happening with the water and stuff.

Now are you going to share and what time should we be there? he he
Maureen.
 
Hi Mo, and the time you would have to be here would likely be zero dark thirty. That's a little navyspeak for some ungodly time of the night or early morning. The date I could make it is a bit of an unknown. As I said, we work some strange shifts.

Watch it coming down I-85. Too many gravediggers are making a good living because of that highway.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
 
Remember thou art mortal.

Hail Mary, full of grace...

Our father who art in heaven...

Yep, I-85 is that nasty. ;-)
Now about that thing with the stern twisting, what's your take on it now?
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
 
At 400 miles per hour up I-85 my stern never twisted once but then my tires never ever hit the surface much less broke apart below the surface so I do not think that this counts in teh twisting stern question.

Wait are you praying for safety for yourself cause I am on my way or for me? Hey!

Maureen. (I love this board).
 
Actually, I'm praying for YOUR safety. The drivers here are a bit wacko. I don't call this place South Scare-o-lina for nothing. ;-)

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
 
As we are nearing Halloween, I think South Scare-o-lina is a great name. By the way, I own a hot pink car Michael! But you can pray for me anyway.

Maureen.
 
Hi all, this is my first post here! Regarding whether or not Titanic should have steamed ahead, it has been well documented that Titanic in fact did that and in "The Last Log of the Titanic" by David G. Brown, he believes that in fact sealed Titanics fate. Engineer Fred Barrett, I believe it was, stated that before this action, the pumps were actually ahead of the inrush of sea water. Brown believes the decision to move ahead forced more water through the bottom and caused the top of the tank deck, which is esentially the inner portion of the double bottom, to pop rivets, etc and eventually give way which allowed water into the boiler rooms and forward holds. Brown also believes the damage was a result of the Titanic running over the submerged shelf of the berg not scrapping along it's exposed side. He believes Murdoch turned left to avoid the berg then back toward it to avoid the stern from colliding with it. This makes a lot of sense but judge for yourself by reading the excerp provided on the site at Last Log of the Titanic or by getting the book. I just saw it tonight at Borders for $19.95. It looks like a very interesting twist to the old belief that she scrapped the starboard exposed side and was destined to sink from the get go.

Michael Koch
 
J

James Eldridge

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Welcome to the board Michael Koch !

That's a good piece of info too.

James
 
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