George Behe

Member
Dec 11, 1999
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Graham wrote:

>3/ George also says that if it was not due to his >death he would not be remembered,

Hi, Graham!

I just meant that Stead's name isn't exactly well-known to the *general public* today; that being the case, I think it's unlikely that a modern 'psychic' who's unfamiliar with either the Titanic or publishing history would ever claim that the 'shade' of W.T. Stead appeared to her in a dream or as an apparition. (On the other hand, if Stead had figured prominently in the Cameron film it's quite possible that modern spirit mediums would have a field day contacting him.)

>whilst I am on the subject does anyone know the >name of stead's 5 children, as for some
>reason I appear to of lost this info.

He had a daughter Estelle and son Alfred; I'm afraid I'm unfamiliar with the rest.

All my best,

George
 
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Graham Pickles

Guest
Hi George,

Sorry I didn't mean to make it sound like you where having a go, I meant that you where right in your appraisal of Stead and if he had been mentioned in Titanic he would of been seen a lot more by the clairvoyants than now. But on the other side of the coin he is remembered for his journalism especially the maiden tribute of modern Babylon. After saying that I contacted the Darlington Northern Echo and spoke to a sub-editor and he didn't know the name so your theory may be right.

Thanks for the two names ill have to try to find my notes on his family for the others.

How is your research going on him for your book and if I can help I will with pleasure.

Graham
 
Mar 30, 1997
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There is a Stead family web page I looked at about two years ago. It should not be too hard to find. He had several children and their birthdates, marriages et al are listed. W.T.'s siblings and their marriages are also listed.

David Huffaker
 

George Behe

Member
Dec 11, 1999
1,280
12
313
Graham wrote:

>How is your research going on him for your book >and if I can help I will with pleasure.

Hi, Graham!

Thanks very much for your generous offer. When Andrew referred to my writing a book about Stead, though, I think he was jokingly referring to the possibility of my expanding the Stead chapter of my first book ("Titanic: Psychic Forewarnings of a Tragedy.") That chapter contained quite a few reports of paranormal-type incidents connected with Stead, and 'new' accounts still surface occasionally (some of which are covered in my second book, "Lost At Sea.")

To answer your question, though, I don't have any plans to write a book about Stead, since several excellent books about him are already in existence.

Take care, old chap.

All my best,

George
 
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Graham Pickles

Guest
Hi George ,
Sorry for the mix-up I read into it something that wasent there. I personally think you should wright one on Stead as you seem pretty knowledgeable on him and his foretelling.

Thank you David I have visited the site you mentioned and I got a lot of info from it. The Stead on Stead site is also good for family matters.

I have just been reading the family tree of Stead and realized that some of his relations still live in Redcar so I will have to have a day by the sea.

Graham
 
Dec 30, 2000
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Dear George,

The Vicarage at Embleton in north Northumberland - -very close to the sea - occupies a medieval defensive tower dating back to 1415. Wt Stead was born here.

There is a local tradition that at the exact moment Titanic slipped beneath the waves, some form of paranormal activity took place within the Library on the first floor of the Tower. Servants linked this phenomenon with WT Stead for obvious reasons. WT Stead had always reckoned the Tower was already haunted by the ghost of a lady killed in a border raid (Embleton is very close to the Scottish border)

According to one account, this activity took the form of WT appearing to his sister who lived in the adjoining vicarage. Servants were convinced that Dorothy had experienced some form of supernatural encounter even before news of the Titanic disaster reached Embleton.

I will try and dig out the 1929 newspaper feature (Newcastle Illustrated Chronicle) taken from the recollections of a servant at Embleton and provide more detailed information.
 

Thomas Ford

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Nov 30, 2000
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I remember a steward who claimed he saw stead reading a book by himself in the smoking lounge,did Thomas Andrews and Stead die together there,what terrible deaths Andrews must have had and stead too if he was there.
 
Jan 31, 2001
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I've heard that same version of Stead's death in Europress' Titanic: An Interactive Journey PC game. The only difference is, he was said to have been in the lounge reading the book, instead of the smoking room. If your version is correct, then Stead and Andrews would have been in the same room when the ship sank (presumably). But if he was in the lounge, they would have been seperated.
 
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Ben Thomas Sebastian Holme

Guest
I have also read somewhere that Maj. Butt, Clarence Moore and Arthur Ryerson went down in the smoking room. I know that Col. Gracie observed Butt, Moore and Millet there, seated around a table all alone before Thomas Andrews arrived but it may be a possibility that they returned with Ryerson (and without Millet) after the lowering of boats 2 and 4.
What does everyone else think?

Regards
Ben
 
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Rolf Vonk

Guest
Ben, the Eaton and Haas book says on page 158 "At 2 am, Archie Butt and Arthur Ryerson adjourn to the first class smoking room with Francis D. Millet and Clarence Moore. The four sit at their usual table and play one last hand of cards together while awaiting the end. Ten minutes later, they leave." So I guess your point could be right. Boat 4 was the last non-collapsable boat lowered at 1.55 am. Ryerson brought his family to this boat and it could be possible that he returned to the smoking room after that.

I don't know if Mr Widener and Mr Thayer stayed with boat 4 till it was lowered, but when this is the case, Ryerson didn't stay with them when boat 4 was gone. Colonel Gracie reported to have seen Widener and Thayer having a serious conversation at the starboard side of the ship in accompagnie of other first class passengers including miss Evans and Mrs Caroline Brown. He didn't mention Ryerson.

Rolf
 
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Ben Thomas Sebastian Holme

Guest
Hi Rolf,

Thanks for your clarification of the source!
Most seem to support the idea that they left around 2:10am. I am merely entertaining the possibility that they returned AGAIN when they realised the hopelessness of the situation.

I agree that Ryerson must have made a hasty retreat to the smoking room following the departure of boat #4.

You are correct in that Widener and Thayer were observed by Col. Gracie. They were admidships, along the starboard rail where boat #7 had been "talking earnestly, as if debating what to do". This was shortly before the lowering of collapsible D, fairly near the end, boat #4 having left. Mrs J.M. Brown and Edith Evans were standing near them. As Theyer and the Wideners headed sternward, Ryerson would probably have been in the smoking room with the others.

Thanks for your suggestions!

Regards
Ben
 
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Rolf Vonk

Guest
Hi Ben,

Do you think Ryerson and Thayer were friends? Cause Mrs Thayer and Mrs Ryerson were. Don't you think it is strange that he left them and went to the smoke room?

Regards,
Rolf
 
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Ben Thomas Sebastian Holme

Guest
Hi Rolf,

Ryerson and Thayer were both from Pennsylvania and almost certainly were friends. They were walking on deck together on the afternoon of April 14th when Ismay was discussing the proximity of ice with their wives. Ismay made a hasty retreat when the men arrived to join their wives.

It is strange that they didn't stick together in the final moments. Ryerson even told his wife that he would stay with John B. Thayer.
I'd imagine that after the departure of boat #4, Thayer and Ryerson contemplated their situation. Thayer may have prefered to take his chances on the rising stern, while Ryerson went and joined other friends.

Regards

Ben
 
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Rolf Vonk

Guest
Hi Ben,

I didn't know that Ryerson told his wife that he would stay with John B. Thayer. The whole situation must have been strange, cause Thayer also left or lost his son. Why didn't they searched for eachother?

Any ideas?

Rolf
 

Thomas Ford

Member
Nov 30, 2000
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well,whoever was in the smoking lounge,they must have a terrible death,the ship pitching up would have would have threw them against the walls,and in andrews' case right up against the stain glass wall and they all probably died when the ship broke in two or soon after.
 

Thomas Ford

Member
Nov 30, 2000
47
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well,whoever was in the smoking lounge,they must have a terrible death,the ship pitching up would have threw them against the walls,and in andrews' case right up against the stain glass wall and they all probably died when the ship broke in two or soon after.
 
R

Rolf Vonk

Guest
Thomas,

I think all the people aboard had a terrible dead:

-being crushed by a funnel
-being sucked into the ship
-drowning
-freezing to dead
-burning by steam from the boilers
etc......

I think it isn't sure that Andrews was in the smoking room till the final end. We know he was there shortly before, but he might have going to another part of the ship. His cabin, for example, where he must have had the building plans of Titanic (also very emotional at such a moment).

Regards,
Rolf
 
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Ben Thomas Sebastian Holme

Guest
Hi Rolf,

I agree, it is strange that the Thayer men didn't make more or an obvious effort to locate eachother. What's even more perculiar is that they both appeared to stay aroun the same part of the starboard boat deck at almost the same time i.e by the empty lifeboat davits......WEIRD!

Regards
Ben
 
B

Ben Thomas Sebastian Holme

Guest
Hi Rolf,

I agree, it is strange that the Thayer men didn't make more or an obvious effort to locate eachother. What's even more perculiar is that they both appeared to stay around the same part of the starboard boat deck at almost exactly the same time i.e by the empty lifeboat davits......WEIRD!

Regards
Ben
 
R

Rolf Vonk

Guest
Hey Ben,

Were they both at the starboard side? I can't believe this. How was the relation between father, mother and son? I heard the Carters had always quarrel aboard, so it isn't strange that they left each other when they boarded the lifeboats. But it stays a guess why the Thayers didn't search for eachother. What about Harry Widener? Did he stay with his father after the lowering of boat #4?

I'm looking forward to your responses!

Regards,
Rolf
 

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