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taner tanriover

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Let's assume Lord and crew were absolutely honest in their statements. We still have the business of determining who that nearby mystery ship was that [insert name here] tried morsing with torchlight? Let's suppose 'twas not Californian [despite historically being the biggest -and just about the only serious- suspect] but say ship X, captained by some guy called X.
Most of what I've had to say about Lord also apply to Cpt. X and crew.
Ship X couldn't help because, being so close to the disaster and [most probly] having had first hand knowledge of the fact that it was a consequence of human error rather than a natural occurence, were too busy discussing whether they should, or just simply too scared of the potential risx a rescue effort involved.
Let's face it: There just WAS a ship close by. These people couldn't have been trying to send torchlight signals to some ship that may have been 12-20 miles away. All that remains a mystery is whether this ship was the Californian or not.
And when I say human error, I mean, building a ship that size when it was not clear whether things happened at random or not and sailing it with little regard to safety was a deadly mistake to begin with, nevermind sinking it thru a collision with an iceberg after ignoring specific warnings.

All these people who oh so popularly demanded that my previous thread is closed. Since you are so convinced that it was not Californian please shed some light on the identity of Ship X. And please don't bother write in to say it could have been a star or something. That's just baloney. According to a dozen or so Titanic statements there was a ship close by. And all statements by the crew of Californian deny that this could have been them.
To me it's pretty clear that only one of these parties could have been truthful.
And also pretty clear which one.

Because my version of events make sense.
Lord's don't.

"What goes around comes around. What did you think it was a joke when we told you there was ice here? It's our turn to pretend your CQDs are sent in good humor, then."
happy.gif


one guy disregards warnings
one does not respond to distress calls
story of my life
tell me about it

---

I bought a couple of boox on Titanic today, namely The Senate Hearings, and a paperback that compiles 4 survivor stories including Gracie and Beesley's.
Gracie, whose version I'd read before and find accurate and unbiased, sounds almost convinced Californian was lying:
"[...] it was not chance but the grossest negligence alone which sealed the fate of all the noble lives, men and women, that were lost. [...] the Captain of the Californian and his crew were watching our lights from the deck of their ship, which remained approximately stationary until 5.15 am [...] When we realised that the ship whose lights we saw was not coming towards us, our hopes of rescue were correspondingly depressed."

a whole lot of lifeboat survivors' and Titanic crew testimonies verify Gracie's accusations. What reason did these people have to lie about seeing the lights of a ship? None. What reason did Lord and crew have to lie? Endless.
Lord's testimony, which maintains he was 20 miles or so away at all times is pure rubbish. According to some accounts he was told as many as times 5 times about the rockets but didn't react. Gracie claims Californian was as close as 4-5 miles around midnight.
Californian's story couldn't have been true. Lord sounds like he was lying but he sure doesn't sound like a grade A moron who couldn't have figured that a ship repeatedly firing rockets at wee hours of the morning, in a treacherous region of the ocean was in distress. Especially [according to Evans' account] he well knew that that ship could have been no other than the Titanic. [LORD: "The only passenger steamer near us is the Titanic."]
 
"They just didn't know they were distress signals in those days," is just about one of the silliest arguments I've heard in my life. Only if they didn't want to know they wouldn't have.
 
I personally don't think that ship X could have been the sealing vessel Samson, for I haven't read testimonies from the Cpt and crew of Samson that sound decidedly deceptive and confess to utter stupidity like waiting 4-5 hours until waking up the operator to ask: "There's been a [sinking] ship firing rockets all night. See if something's the matter!"
 
It is said that when Donovan was writing this song [hurdygurdy man], George Harrison
was listening and offered this verse:

When the truth gets buried deep
Beneath a thousand years sleep
Time demands a turnaround
And once again The Truth is found.
 
6712. Did you then stop? - We stopped.

6713. Till? - 6 o'clock next morning. 5.15 we moved the engines for a few minutes and then we stopped on account of the news we received, and waited till 6 o'clock.

6714. It was daylight then, I suppose? - It was daylight then.

6715. Now close upon 11 o'clock did you see a steamer's light? - I did.

The Commissioner: 11 o'clock when?

The Attorney-General: At night, my Lord.

The Commissioner: This was on Sunday night?

6716. (The Attorney-General.) Yes. (To the Witness.) This was on Sunday night that you had stopped? - After we had stopped.

6717. And you saw a steamer's light. Was it approaching you? - It was approaching me from the eastward.

6718. How did it bear? - I did not get the bearings of it; I was just noticing it casually from the deck.

6719. Where was it? On your quarter? - It was on the starboard side.

6720. What did you see - what light? - I just saw a white light to commence with.

6721. Did you then ask your wireless operator what ships he had? - Yes, I went to his room and I asked him what ships he had.

6722. That means from what ships he had had messages? - What ships he had been in communication with.

6723. What did he say? - "Nothing, only the 'Titanic.'"

6724. Did you think that the vessel approaching you was the "Titanic"? - No, I remarked at the time that was not the "Titanic."

6725. How could you tell that? - You can never mistake those ships - by the blaze of light.

6726. I am not quite sure that I understand you - you told us you had seen one light? - First.

6727. Then as she was approaching you, did you see more? - I saw more lights.

6728. Did you see any sidelights? - I saw a green light.

6729. And did you see any deck lights? - A few.

6730. It was sufficiently close for that? - Oh, yes, she was getting closer all the time.

6731. About what distance approximately did you consider she was from you? - At 11 o'clock?

6732. I was going to ask you the distance at the time this conversation took place, and you said it was not the "Titanic"? - I suppose she was six or seven miles away. That is only approximately.


I think the more observant passengers of this greater Titanic we call Life in General would be perceptive of the fact that it's Lord's ship sinking this time. Lord's ship of lies sailing the seas of cheese!
And just what was this mystery vessel then that stood in between Californian and the Titanic [obscuring the disaster] which Lord later claims was only about the size of Californian? Anonymous Ghost Ship that was a product of Stanley Lord's imagination placed on those waters to complicate matters.

6796. Did you see it? - No.

6797. The Second Officer saw it? - The Second Officer saw it.

Why not just reprise your lie when you could be saying "yes" ay sunshine?
 
6805. (The Attorney-General - To the Witness.) Can you tell us whether you saw one or two masthead lights? - I only saw one.

6806. You only saw one? - The Third Officer said he saw two.

The Attorney-General: Now that is important.

The Commissioner: That is very important, because the "Titanic" would have two.

6807. (The Attorney-General.) Yes, that is it - two masthead lights. (To the Witness.) You only saw one, but the Third Officer said he saw two? - And the Second Officer said he saw one.

The Attorney-General: Very well; we will hear their accounts from them.

The Commissioner: I am sorry to interrupt you, but it is not, satisfactory to me. When was it the Third Officer said he saw two lights? The Third Officer by this time was below; I do not know what you are talking about now.

6808. (The Attorney-General - To the Witness.) When was it the Third Officer told you he had seen the two lights? - Before 12 o'clock.

6809. Before 12 o'clock? - Before midnight. At the time I saw one, he saw two.

6810. Were you on deck when he told you this? - He told me the following day, I think; I do not think it was mentioned that night.

Californian's version of events is, quite simply, a mish-mash. One of the silliest [but also significant] attempts at science-fiction ever. Like the movie Amazon Women on The Moon.
These people.. One minute they are seeing a ship, one minute they dont. They don't know even know what ship they are seeing. [supposedly]

Repeatedly ignoring what could have been no other than distress signals. Not waking up their wireless man when absolutely necessary. Telling inconsistent and obviously false stories about their positions. And some people still would like to believe them.
Like George Costanza says to Jerry in an episode of Seinfeld:
"Remember, it's not a lie if you believe it's not a lie!"
 
But the thing is
in order to understand how Californian's statements were lies you need to understand how for example Captain Smith's entire life was a lie. A bunch of meaningless events, a whole lot of sailing ships to and fro culminating into a horrible catastrophe: death.
Ideally, this Smith could have been alive and ruling the Kingdom today. Imagine
if only his kingdom had come, nowadays Smith could have been 150 something but looking every bit like the fountain of youth I am.
only if he had it his way
only if he hadn't yielded to conformity
only if he remained smart enough to never have been persuaded by Ismay or anything else to use Titanic as a speedboat.
 
In the Cameron movie, when Rose is going thru his sketchbook, Jack points out to the rendering of this mysterious old lady, who waited every evening at a cafe for her long lost love wearing every piece of jewellery she had.
Titanic was a lot like her. An ugly old lady who lost a chance at true happiness and eternal wisdom long ago still trying to look beautiful with her grotesque load of precious rocks. Merely an ugly metaphor [like that lady] to help mankind untangle the mystery.
And today's society is made up of billions of Captain Smiths racing to their respective rendezvous..
with ice.
 
and being the ultimate Captain Lord I am, so to speak,
What can I do but keep sending them warning messages [which unlike Stanley, mind you, at the time of sending I know full well] they will ignore, time and again? And I guess that's why they say, God has a sick sense of humour, right?
 
6881. According to you did she fire only one rocket? - Only one rocket.

6882. Have you never heard from other Officers that she fired a number of rockets? - Since.

6883. When did you hear that? - The next day.

6884. Who told you? - The Second Officer first.

6885. What did he say? - He said she had fired several rockets in his watch - no, the Chief Officer told me, about 5 o'clock, that she had fired several rockets.

The Attorney-General: My Lord, I think it very desirable that the other Witnesses from the "Californian" should be out of Court whilst this Witness is giving evidence. [good call. But I wish it was made a few questions earlier.]

The Commissioner: By all means.

The Attorney-General: If your Lordship will direct it.

The Commissioner: Where are the other Witnesses from the "Californian"? (The Officers of the "Californian" stood up in Court.) Well, gentlemen, I think you had better leave the Court at present. (The Officers retired.)

6886. (The Attorney-General.) Had you heard this vessel had fired altogether 8 rockets? - When.

6887. Before the Chief Officer came to you at 4.30? - None. Expletive deleted - JDT

6888. Do you know that Gibson was told by the Second Officer to call you? - I do now.

6889. You do now? - Yes.

6890. When did you hear that? - The next day.

6891. What time the next day? - At about 7 o'clock. [bollox!]

6892. In. the morning? - In the morning. [aha aha]

6893. That the Second Officer had told Gibson to go to the chart room to call you? - Yes.

6894. And was that for the purpose of telling you that this vessel had fired 8 rockets? - Several rockets, I understand.
 
This whole British inquiry putting it to poor old Stanley Lord is just an insane comedy of errors. Read from my perspective it's like the most amazing hilarious script to a neverending Monty Python routine! Liars confronting other liars with their lies. Bizarre.
 
6983. Were you quite comfortable in your mind when you heard the "Titanic" had sunk, in reference to your own actions? - Well, I thought we ought to have seen her signals at 19 miles, that was the only thing that was worrying me. [aha aha, apropos of nothing let's give this wig-head a quick dose of this 19-20 miles crap. That'll buy us some time.]

6984. Do you mean rockets? - Her distress rockets - if she had fired any, which I presume she had.

6985. You ought to have seen them? - I thought we might have seen them at 19 miles. [and just why wouldn't you?]

6986. Have you ever heard what the steamer was that according to you sent up rockets if it was not the "Titanic"? - No, I have never heard anything about it.

6987. We know from the evidence in this case that the "Titanic" did send up rockets for some considerable time? - Yes.

6988. So far as I understand from you, you do not know of any other steamer which, on that night, and about this time, sent up rockets? - I do not.

Note how Lord
when confronted with Q. 6983
doesn't say:

"Oh if only I hadn't been asleep, we may have saved so many lives."

or

"This has been a case of miscommunication between me and my crew."

but

has to refresh his stupid 19 miles story.

I rest my case.
 
The funny thing about me is
I'm the kind of Cpt Lord who DOES eventually move his Californian and zoom in on the disaster. Because he knows it's just an adventure. And the Lord will protect him and his crew. They are all blessed creatures. And I'm not going just to do a haphazard rescue effort but the ultimate poetic justice. Like if you happen to be a modern-day Ismay, I'll be fishing you out of your life-boat only to be throwing your battered corpse on an ice floe minutes later. If you are a despicable character like Billy Zane or his butler, don't bother climbing on my ship, pal. You won't be staying on for long.
 
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