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Melissa E. Kalson
Posted on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 7:51 pm:       

Hello all..
I was just wondering if anyone could tell me how rare is a copy of Colonel Archibald Gracie's book on the sinking? I have found a little bookstore right down the street from where I live and they have an entire section devoted to Titanic. They do have one copy and although I did not buy it at the time, I am considering going back for it as it's only listed as $6.00 Is this a rare book to get ahold of or is it pretty common? Thanks.. Sincerely, Melissa Kalson
Trent Pheifer
Posted on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 8:44 pm:       

Hey Melissa,

It all seems to depend on when the edition of the book was printed. If it is the 1997 edition, it seems to be very common..our library has 4 copies. But if it's the 1913 edition I would say it is pretty rare. Either way it is a nice book to have for your collection. And definitely worth the $6.00!!

-Trent
Deborah Russes
Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 3:09 am:       

Melissa...I agree with Trent....I have a copy and I think it is worth it...in fact, I am in the process of rereading it right now. Definitely go grab it!
Melissa E. Kalson
Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 11:40 pm:       

Thanks Trent and Deborah.. I am going to definitely go back and buy the book. Sincerely, Melissa
Melissa E. Kalson
Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 3:08 am:       

I did finally get that Gracie copy and am reading it now. It is thought provoking and most definitely insightful and touching at the same time. Definitely worth the money. Sincerely, Melissa K.
Jason D. Tiller
Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 3:24 am:       

I have the 1985 edition of this book which I bought for a $1.00 at a local church book sale a few years ago. While I've only skimmed through it,(I have so many Titanic books to read!) :-) it looks like a very interesting book.

Glad you're enjoying your copy Melissa.

Best regards,

Jason :-)
"to be happy is to be contented in your own mind"...Harold Godfrey Lowe
Melissa E. Kalson
Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 6:39 pm:       

Thanks Jason.. I definitely am enjoying it. Mine too is the 1985 edition and I got mine for $6.00 from a local bookstore down the street from my house. Sincerely, Melissa K.
Jason D. Tiller
Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 8:51 pm:       

You're welcome Melissa. We both got our copies at great deals! :-)

Best regards,

Jason :-)
"to be happy is to be contented in your own mind"...Harold Godfrey Lowe
Tarn Stephanos
Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 - 11:06 pm:       

First edition of the book- 1913 ranges in the $350 range...
The maroon colured verion seems to be most common.
There was also a GREEN coloured Gracie in 1913, I assume a second printing, as its contains a post-sinking photo of Gracie on a beach the maroon version lacks...


tarn Stehanos
Roy Kristiansen
Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 9:40 pm:       

Colonel Archibald Gracie, Censor?


Hi, all!

Has anybody ever commented on a glaring little discrepancy between Mrs. Ryerson's affidavit to the US Inquiry and Colonel Gracie's quotation from the same in "The Truth About the 'Titanic'"? I came across it quite by accident and I'm not sure whether or not it's old news.

The passage in question is in the paragraph that starts, "The ropes seemed to stick at one end and the boat tipped..." and what I see is a virtual rewrite by the good colonel, not only of Mrs. Ryerson's words, but of her intent. At first I was inclined to think that Gracie simply found her too verbose and that a little condensation might be in order. But after rereading his Chapter III, in which he went to great length to discredit the "break-in-two theory," I started wondering whether his tinkering might be the result of some editorial motive. In the excerpt below, Mrs. Ryerson mentions not only the break-up, but also the difficulties their lifeboat had in getting organized. You be the judge. (I should say that the rest of Gracie's excerpted text, though occasionally reformatted, holds fairly closely to Mrs. Ryerson's original.)

FIFTEENTH DAY
Friday, May 10
Washington, D.C.

Affidavit: Emily B. Ryerson
First-class passenger, from Philadelphia

"...In a few minutes after several other men not sailors came down the ropes over the davits and dropped into our boat. The order was given to pull away, then they rowed off - the sailors, the women, anyone - but made little progress; there was a confusion of orders; we rowed toward the stern, some one shouted something about a gangway, and no one seemed to know what to do. Barrels and chairs were being thrown overboard. Then suddenly, when we still seemed very near, we saw the ship was sinking rapidly. I was in the bow of the boat with my daughter and turned to see the great ship take a plunge toward the bow, the two forward funnels seemed to lean and then she seemed to break in half as if cut with a knife, and as the bow went under the lights went out; the stern stood up for several minutes, black against the stars, and then that, too, plunged down, and there was no sound for what seemed like hours, and then began the cries for help of people drowning all around us, which seemed to go on forever..."

Colonel Gracie’s edited version:

“Mrs. E. B. Ryerson’s affidavit (Am. Inq., p. 1107):

"...In a few minutes several other men, not sailors, came down the ropes over the davits and dropped into our boat. The order was given to pull away, and then they rowed off. Someone shouted something about a gangway, and no one seemed to know what to do. Barrels and chairs were being thrown overboard. As the bow of the ship went down the lights went out. The stern stood up for several minutes black against the stars and then the boat plunged down. Then began the cries for help of people drowning all around us, which seemed to go on forever..."

I'm a little surprised that Gracie provided a citation to the original document, since it surely invites comparison. But perhaps folks weren't dissecting every syllable so relentlessly back in '12 and '13?

Best wishes!

Roy
Michael Tennaro
Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 11:48 pm:       

Hi Roy,
I think the edit on Gracie's part was intentional. Like most other people at the time, he accepted the "knowledgeable" opinions of Titanic's surviving officers and White Star Line's engineering experts that the ship would not have broken in two. Gracie edited out Ryerson's breakup comments as he believed her to be in error on this subject.

all the best, Michael (TheManInBlack) T
Titanic Book Site.com

Inger Sheil
Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 12:29 am:       

Very interesting point, Roy - I'd never noticed that! (I tend to refer to the Inquiry transcripts rather than Gracie's excerpts of them). Have you gone through to see if there's any other selective editing on Gracie's part?

I think Gracie was not just acting on opinions of the surviving officers and engineering input, TMIB. His own observations made him strongly hold that view, and he used Lightoller's similar viewpoint about the lack of a breakup to bolster his own.
Mark Robert Hopkins
Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 12:52 am:       

>>Gracie edited out Ryerson's breakup comments as he believed her to be in error on this subject.<<

Err, looks like she wasn't.
When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose!
Paul Lee
Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 11:02 am:       

What a shame a transcript of Gracie's talk shortly before he died isn't in general circulation....

Paul
--
http://www.paullee.com
Mark Robert Hopkins
Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 10:58 pm:       

But does it still exist, Paul? That would be a fascinating read. ;)
When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose!
Paul Lee
Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 1:24 am:       

Walter Lord referred to it in 1986, so it must have been available then.

Thanks, shipmate!
Paul Lee
Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 1:29 am:       

Just had an instantaneous thought: what if no copies exist and Lord was reffering frm memory or from other means?
That means that no copies exist/
Mark Robert Hopkins
Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 11:38 pm:       

Whatever exists, I would very much like to read it. I would have to look for it. Gracie's account, whether true or false or controversial, is one of the predominant survivor accounts of the Titanic, along with Lightoller's, Bride's, Ismay's, and Beesley's.

Thanks, Paul! It's much appreciated. :-)
When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose!
Roy Kristiansen
Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 7:38 pm:       

G'day, Inger!

>>I tend to refer to the Inquiry transcripts rather than Gracie's excerpts of them.

I agree with you totally. But would you agree as well that it's been only in the past few years that access to the transcripts has become widely available? (Thank you, thank you, folks of the T.I.P.!!) Prior to that I'd had to rely on bits and pieces that some other author had deigned to excerpt.
>>Have you gone through to see if there's any other selective editing on Gracie's part?

No, not yet. My primary focus lately has been on my Harbeck project, and I compared Gracie's version of Mrs. Ryerson to the transcript simply on a whim. But now that I've tasted blood, so to speak, perhaps I'll take up the matter as a kind of "side dish." Just keep feeding me your stories about the Great Whites, eh? '-)

BTW, Inger, please refresh my memory. Where in Australia is your home? I have an Australian friend here who's curious.

Best wishes, my friend!

Roy
Roy Kristiansen
Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 7:54 pm:       

Hi, Mark and Paul!

>>What a shame a transcript of Gracie's talk shortly before he died isn't in general circulation....

Right! So what's the bleedin' problem?? I feel the same way about the audio recording of Lightoller's BBC radio broadcast, which again, I've heard only in "bits and pieces."

Best wishes, guys!

Roy
Inger Sheil
Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 2:40 am:       

G'day there, Roy!

quote:

I agree with you totally. But would you agree as well that it's been only in the past few years that access to the transcripts has become widely available?



Oh, absolutely! I had to fork out a fortune for the bound compilations of evidence and reports of both inquires before they were transcribed by the good folks working on the TIP. I take your point, that there may be a good many people who have been mislead by this manipulation of a source. I only mentioned that I used the transcripts rather than Gracie as an aside noting that I would never have picked up the selective editing that your eagle eye found.

No GWS lately here, but I'm looking forward to an upcoming scuba diving liveaboard expedition to a remote, very sharky reef in the coral sea (there's a possibility of schooling hammerheads!). I live in Sydney - or rather, just North of it.

Cheers -

Ing
Mikael Jonsson
Posted on Tuesday, November 2, 2004 - 11:36 am:       

I just bought the edition from 1929 with photos from the "new" movie Atlantic :-)

It was absolutely worth the 30 USD.

best regards, Mikael
Mikael Jonsson
Posted on Wednesday, November 3, 2004 - 5:35 pm:       

Hi again.

I received an e-mail from someone here on the forum who wanted to know more about the 1929 edition.

It is in Swedish and is in 130 pages.
In the foreword you can read about the new movie Atlantic which will be in sound :-)
It is printed by Bonniers 1930.

There are about 20 photos from Atlantic as illustrations. It is a softcoverbook.
I don't know how common it is, but I have seen
at least one more for sale on the Swedish Ebay.

I attach two photos here below:

Mikael Jonsson
Posted on Wednesday, November 3, 2004 - 5:36 pm:       

And one from inside with a photo from Atlantic.
Tarn Stephanos
Posted on Thursday, November 25, 2004 - 6:18 pm:       

Oddly enough several Gracies have popped up this month on Ebay...
But of course, all copies were the maroon coloured version.....
That elusive green coloured version is the one to buy...
Regards


tarn Stephanos
Susan Alby
Posted on Thursday, January 6, 2005 - 5:27 pm:       

I have the Unabridged AUDIO book on tape in my possession by Col. Gracie, except on the cover it says only 'Titanic', not 'The Truth About the Titanic'. I am assuming it is the same book in a different format? It is read by Frederick Davidson and it is as though you are hearing Gracie tell his story from his own mouth.
Come, Josephine In My Flying Machine (UP SHE GOES!)