Encyclopedia Titanica

Rare Titanic deck plan hints at Astor cabin location

The plan of first class accomodation was saved by Colonel Astor's assistant

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A rare original deckplan indicates the cabins intended for use by Colonel John Jacob Astor and his wife Madeleine.

William Dobbyn (1876-1939) was Astor's executive assistant for many years.  He assisted Astor with day-to-day business activities but also acted in a domestic capacity, and was a close personal confidant.

Dobbyn used the plan as part of his arrangements for the Astors' return from honeymoon aboard the Titanic in April 1912.   Dobbyn himself did not make the journey on the Titanic.  

On the plan, Dobbyn has made two significant annotations.

Firstly, he has circled two cabins separated by a bathroom, part of a suite of three staterooms. And noted:

C-74 and C-76 — 1225usd Apr. 10 from Cherbourg

Plan

He has also added the following note at the top of the plan:

Jan 23/12
Archer[?] said would write Paris office to hold these rooms for Col. A who I said would take the matter up in Paris.

Plan

The matter of which cabins the Astors occupied has perplexed historians for years, and many combinations have been suggested, none with any firm documentary evidence.  This deck plan may be the only available contemporary source mentioning specific cabins.

Although a major contribution to the debate, the notes on these plans do not constitute proof that these were the actual cabins that the Astors finally booked or ultimately occupied, but it seems likely that these were the ones that they intended to reserve. 

The rare plan was one of over 250 Titanic and other maritime-related items sold at auction on 27 April 2014 by Henry Aldridge & Son.

Related Biographies

Madeleine Talmage Astor
John Jacob Astor
William Dobbyn

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  1. Adam M. McGuirk Adam M. McGuirk
    Astor Cabin discrepancyI've been searching through the archives of this site and have noticed that there is some debate over what cabin the Astors were in. This site, as well as most Titanic sources place them in C-62/64. This old thread offers a fascinating discussion about why they might not have been in that cabin:https://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/community/threads/et-deck-plans-c-deck-and-d-deck-occupant-identification.1770/It is brought up in the thread that there is no primary source for placing the Astors in that cabin. That seems to be true, but there is one thing that I didn't see mentioned in that thread, which is the ticket price the Astors paid: According to this website, the Astors paid £247 10s 6d for whatever cabin they occupied. By comparison, the Straus party paid £221 15s 7d for the starboard C-deck parlor suite of C-55/57. Aren't those prices fairly close? The Astors had one more person in their party (a nurse, in addition to a maid and manservant), so it makes sense that theirs was slightly higher. Regardless, both parties paid fares that were much much higher than what most first class people paid.RMS Titanic :: 1st Class PassengersIs it possible that scholars have made an educated guess that the Astors occupied C-62/64 because the price they paid for it was almost identical to what the Straus party paid for the other C-Deck parlor
  2. Thomas Krom Thomas Krom
    A first-class plan of accommodation saved by Astor's assistant William Dobbyn (who did not sail) circled adjoining cabins [URL='https://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/titanic-deckplans/location-c-74-76.html']C-74 and C-76[/URL], and annotated in pencil "$1225 April 10 from Cherbourg".Another note on the plan reads:"Jan 23/12Archer[?] said would write Paris office to hold these rooms for Col. A who I said would take the matter up in Paris."The plan is one of the items being sold this weekend at Henry Aldridge & Son's Titanic auction.More details will be featured in my upcoming article on the stateroom allocation but there is evidence that places William and Lilian Minahan in C-76 instead of in C-78 with Ida Minahan. Which means that the Astors likely were in C-72 and C-74.
  3. Thomas Krom Thomas Krom
    It's quite possible things changed after January. Look forward to hearing more.I can say with certainty that they remained in C-74, but more on that this summer.
  4. Thomas Krom Thomas Krom
    Is anything stated on the plan about their valet and maid by the way?
  5. Thomas Krom Thomas Krom
    Seems a bit odd. If the plan is accurate for the final layout, 74/76/78 were a suite of three rooms, and 72 was part of the adjoining suite (68/70/72), but presumably there is an explanation.C-78 and C-76 were occupied by the Minahans based on the evidence at hand. On the Olympic the year before they were, on the top of my head, in C-75 and C-77. According to the second-hand account from Mrs. Astor, told by William Dobbyn stated they slept in separate staterooms too. Ida Minahan also told on the Carpathia she was awoken by the cries from Mrs. Astor.
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Encyclopedia Titanica (2024) Rare Titanic deck plan hints at Astor cabin location ( ref: #784, published 26 April 2024, generated 20th September 2024 03:22:08 AM); URL : https://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/rare-titanic-deck-plan-hints-at-astor-cabin-location.html