STORY OF BOYS' FALL AS TOLD BY MOTHER

New York Times

Dr. Norris Makes Public the Official Record of Mrs. Waidman's Examination
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MEMORY IS FRAGMENTARY
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Unable to Recall Where She Sat or Exactly How Sons Plunged to Death From Hotel Roof
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Dr. Charles Norris, Chief Medical Examiner, made public yesterday the transcript of his examination of Mrs. Milton S. Waldman the day before in the Park West Sanitarium, 179 West Seventy-sixth Street, regarding the manner in which her two small children, Terrence, 4 years, and Benjamin, 14 months, fell from the roof of the Surrey Apartment Hotel, 20 East Seventy-sixth Street, and were killed.

Mrs. Waldman, the daughter of the late Benjamin Guggenheim, had gone to the roof of the sixteen-story hotel with her children to visit her cousin, Mrs. Cornelius Love Jr., who has a pent-house apartment there. Mrs. Love was not at home, and Mrs. Waldman walked out on the roof, carrying the infant, with the older boy following.

She revealed only a fragmentary recollection of what happened after she stepped onto the roof on passing through two gates of the fence the Loves erected around a small garden. She said that she could not recall whether she actually had sat down on the coping an one side of the roof, overlooking the roof of the three-story building at Madison Avenue and Seventy-sixth Street to which the children fell.

Record of Mother's Story

The record of the examination follows:

Q.-A week ago this afternoon you went to visit Mrs. Love and you didn't find her in. A.-Yes, doctor.

Q.-And very shortly afterwards you went out on the roof with your children. A.-Yes, doctor.

Q.-Can you tell just what happened? A.-I feel a little dazed about it, but as far as I can remember I just went out on the roof with the two children and I walked around to make a tour of inspection. Mrs. Love told me it was perfectly safe there and the baby was awfully heavy and I sat down for a minute to rest, and the next thing I knew the big boy started climbing up and pushing and before I knew it they had both disappeared over the side of the roof, and it all happened so suddenly I just can't understand.

Q.-You sat on the parapet? A.-I sat down for a minute. The baby was very heavy to carry and I sat down the nearest place I saw.

Q.-Right near the chimney? A.-I don't remember anything. I remember the red tiles on the roof. I feel so confused about it all. I have tried to think about it, but it was all so terribly sudden. It is quite possible there was a chimney there. I suppose there was on the roof. The next thing I knew---it was all so sudden---they were over the side and gone, and I remember calling for help, calling the maid and somebody giving me some water in a glass.

Boy Pushed at Baby

Q.-Do you remember the older boy getting up on the parapet? A.-I am not very clear about it. I remember him pushing at the baby and trying to get into my arms too. I remember him struggling with the baby.

Q.-Did he put his feet on the parapet? A.-I really don't remember where he put his feet. I remember him pushing the baby and climbing up.

Q.-The baby was in your arms? A.-Yes, he was. I was sitting or standing---I am still dazed about it all. I think I was still sitting. It seems to me I must have been. The next thing I knew they were both over and it was all so terribly sudden.

Q.-The way I want to help you---I want to have some sort of a reason for---to explain the fact that you yourself did not go off the parapet. You see, it is awfully low, hardly two feet in height. A.-God only knows why I didn't go over. It certainly would have been much better.

Q.-I am only trying to help you out. A.-I can't understand it; they are both very heavy children.

Q.-The baby couldn't walk? A.-He could just stand.

Q.-The older boy was vigorous and strong? A.-Terribly vigorous and strong, and he jumps around a great deal. I think he was a little jealous of the baby. He went up and pinched him.

Q.-The thing I want to get from you, I know it is hard---can you tell me where the big boy was? Was he at any time on the parapet or standing on the parapet? A.-No, I don't think he could have been. I wouldn't let him stand on the parapet. As far as I remember, he was climbing into my arms and pushing the baby.

Believed It Was Quite Safe

Q.-What was the idea of your going on that side of the roof? A.-I have never been on that roof before and I wanted to get acquainted so I could get a nice place to locate for the afternoon. Mrs. Love told me it was quite safe and I had taken the children to penthouses before. Last Winter I had taken them to my cousin's uptown. She had a penthouse and I always thought they were quite safe places. I often took them up there to play. I can't understand why I didn't go over too. It certainly would have been much better if the Lord had taken me and left the children.

Q.-How long were you on the roof altogether and what time was it? A.-I haven't any idea what time but I thought somebody else would remember. I don't think it was very long because I had only just started going round the roof when it happened. As far as I can remember, I hadn't settled any place to sit down for the afternoon. I was just looking around. I had never been up there before and didn't know my way round very well.

Q.-When you got up on the roof, you were carrying the baby in your arms and the big boy was walking? A.-Yes; the big boy was walking. I couldn't carry them both. I feel awfully dazed about it all. I am sorry I cannot get a clearer picture of it all. It was such a shock, I am awfully muddled in my mind.

Q.-You see, I want to help you all I can. It is easy enough to see why the baby should fall off the roof, but I should like to get some sort of an idea from you why the big boy fell off the roof. Was the big boy on your lap? A.-I remember he was climbing up.

Q.-You ought to remember that. A.-He pushed the baby and was climbing up into my arms. I suppose it was my lap he was climbing up into.

Q.-He must have had his feet on the parapet or on your lap? A.-It was all so quick, I don't remember where his feet were.

Q.-Aren't you quite sure his feet were on your lap? A.-As I remember, he started traveling up to me and pushing the baby. I suppose he climbed up into my lap.

After his examination of Mrs. Waldman on Friday, Dr. Norris said:

"The case is closed so far as I am concerned."

He added that he had not changed us opinion and official pronouncement that the deaths had been "entirely accidental."

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Benjamin Guggenheim

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