Fireman John Dilley (Shulver)

[Cal Haines]

A paper by The Society of Naval Architects and Marine Engineers indicates that Fireman John Dilley testified at both inquiries:

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Quote:

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"Spontaneous combustion of coal had caused a stubborn fire in the starboard bunker in the aft corner of Boiler Room No. 6. Fireman J. Dilley testified before the American inquiry held by Senator Smith of Michigan(3) that he had been among 12 men assigned to fight this coal bunker fire. ..." ​

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"Mr. Dilley indicated in his testimony before the Mersey Inquiry, concerning this fire, that while it was still burning, there was talk among the stokers that once the passengers were put ashore, New York City fireboats might have to be called to help extinguish it. ..."​

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(3) Pages 96-102 of "Wreck and Sinking of the Titanic" by Marshall Evertt, (copyright) L. H. Walter, 1912.​

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Garzke, et al, Titanic, The Anatomy of a Disaster -- A Report from the Marine Forensic Panel (SD-7), The Society of Naval Architects and Marine Engineers, Annual Meeting Technical Sessions, 1997, page 1-4. document in PDF format​

It does not appear that Dilley testified at either hearing. He is not on the list of witnesses for either inquiry:
Witnesses Called to Testify Before the Wreck Commissioner's Court
WITNESSES CALLED TO TESTIFY BEFORE THE SENATE SUBCOMMITTEE
also Kuntz, "The Titanic Disaster Hearings: ...", Pocket Books, 1998, page 560 "List of Witnesses"

Trimmer Thomas Dillon did testify at the Mersey hearing and helped fight the bunker fire, but he doesn't have much to say about it: British Inquiry, Day 5, Dillon

If anyone has the Evertt book, perhaps they can help clear this one up.

Cal

 

[Earl Chapman]

I have a copy of the Everett book. It doesn't mention that Dillon gave testimony at the US Inquiry. Here is a transcript from pages 100 to 102:

The WS liner Titanic was on fire from the day she sailed from Southhampton. Her officers and crew knew it, for they had fought the fire for days.

This story, told for the first time on the day of landing by the survivors of the crew who were sent back to England on board the Red Star liner Lapland, was only one of the many thrilling tales of the first---and last---voyage of the Titanic.

"The Titanic sailed from Southhampton on Wednesday, April 10, at noon," said J. Dilley, fireman on the Titanic, who lives at 21 Milton road, Newington, London, North, and who sailed with 150 other members of the Titanic's crew on the Lapland.

"I was assigned to the Titanic from the Oceanic, where I had served as a fireman. From the day we sailed the Titanic was on fire, and my sole duty, together with eleven other men, had been to fight that fire. We had made no headway against it.

"Of course, sir," he went on, "the passengers knew nothing of the fire. Do you think, sir, we'd have let them know about it? No, sir.

"The fire started in bunker No. 6. There were hundreds of tons of coal stored there. The coal on top of the bunker was wet, as all the coal should have been, but down at the bottom of the bunker the coal had been permitted to get dry.

"The dry coal at the bottom of the pile took fire, sir, and smoldered for days. The wet coal on top kept the flames from coming through, but down in the bottom of the bunker, sir, the flames was a-raging.

"Two men from each watch of stokers were told off, sir, to fight that fire. The stokers, you know, sir, work four hours at a time, so twelve of us was fighting flames from the day we put out of Southampton until we hit the iceberg.

"No, sir, we didn't get that fire out, and among the stokers there was talk, sir, that we'd have to empty the big coal bunkers after we'd put our passengers off in New York and then call on the fireboats there to help us put out the fire.

"But we didn't need such help. It was right under bunker No. 6 that the iceberg tore the biggest hole in the Titanic, and the flood of water that came through, sir, put out the fire that our tons and tons of water had not been able to get rid of.

"The stokers were beginning to get alarmed over it, but the officers told us to keep our mouths shut---they didn't want to alarm the passengers.

Perhaps because he used the term "sir" so often, someone assumed that his statements were given to Sen. Smith. But it would appear that Dillon used the term "sir" while talking to the reporter (Everett?).

Earl Chapman
Montreal, Canada

 

[Cal Haines]

Hi Earl,

Thanks for posting that! In the mean time I have acquired a copy of a 1998 reprint of the Everett book, by Castle Books (Edison, NJ). I haven't spent much time with the book, but the overall tone strikes me as quite sensationalistic. I would like to know more about Everett and some of the other things he has written.

I see several problems with the Dilley statement: First, the PARTICULARS OF ENGAGEMENT sheet (engine crew 1), entry #49, lists Dilley's home address as "44 Threefield Lane", not "21 Milton road, Newington, London" and lists his last ship as Olympic, not Oceanic. Second, referring to "bunker No. 6" does not sound right. The testimony is pretty clear on the fire being in the forward bunker in boiler room #5, which was referred to as "section 5" and "stokehold 9" (in the case of the forward half). I haven't seen anything in the testimony where "bunker number such-and-such" is referred to. Thomas Andrew's builders notebook for Olympic labels the lateral bunkers on either side of bulkhead "E" (between BR#5 and BR#6) as "W" and "Y". Also, inquiry testimony states that the fire was out by the time of the collision and the number of men used to fight the fire does not seem to correlate.

An article in The New York Herald, does support the part about the Lapland:

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Quote:

One hundred and fifty of the Titanic's seamen and all the mail, numbering 1,927 sacks, which was to have gone aboard that vessel yesterday, left this city yesterday on board the Lapland, of the Red Star line. J. Bruce Ismay arranged to go home on board the Lapland when the Carpathia arrived Thursday night, but has remained here at the request of the Senate Committee which is investigating the Titanic disaster.

All the survivors of the Titanic's crew were not on board because many of them have been summoned to appear before the investigating committee. One man, one of the Titanic's quartermasters, returned to this city by the pilot boat after the Lapland got away. His return was requested by wireless.

None of the Titanic's seamen leaving on board the Lapland yesterday would discuss the Titanic disaster. The men said they had their orders from the office of the White star line.
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"The Lapland Takes the Titanic's Mail", The New York Herald, Sunday, April 21, 1912, First Section, page 6, top of column 4

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Hichens testimony, American Inquiry, Day 5, Hichens, confirms that he is the Quartermaster taken off of the Lapland. This seems to make sense as the Red Star Line was allied with White Star. The Lapland actually spent some time in service with the White Star Line. Does anyone know if Red Star was owned by IMM, or just how that worked? Hichens says that he had been staying aboard the Celtic since the previous Saturday, but apparently could get home sooner aboard Lapland.

The business about wetting down coal to keep it from burning is false. The best ways to prevent spontaneous combustion of coal is to keep it dry, cool and to minimize small particles and coal dust. According to Parr and Kressmann, "Any coal with conditions favorable to oxidation will be facilitated in that action by moisture. ... Without exception, in all the series of tests, the wetting of the coal increased the activity as shown by the ultimate temperature." (Parr, S.W. & Kressmann, F.W., "The Spontaneous Combustion of Coal", The Engineering Magazine, Vol. 43, No. 5, August, 1912, page 836)

Warm Regards,

Cal

 

[Mark Baber]

See below.

MAB

 

[Mark Baber]

>Does anyone know if Red Star was owned by IMM, or just how that worked?

Sure was; in fact, Red Star's corporate owner, International Navigation Co., which also operated the American Line, was one of the first shipping outfits to be brought into the Morgan combine.

Quite a few Red Star ships were used by White Star for varying periods of time and vice versa. For some examples, take a look at the following:
http://www.greatships.net/zeeland.html
http://www.greatships.net/vaderland.html
http://www.greatships.net/arabic3.html

In addition to White Star, Red Star and American, IMM owned the Leyland, Dominion and Atlantic Transport Lines; held a minority interest in Holland American; and had profit-sharing agreements with Hapag and NDL.

Sources: Bonsor's North Atlantic Seaway; Haws' Merchant Fleets; Flayhart's The American Line.

MAB

 

[Cal Haines]

Thanks, Mark! You're the man.

Cal

 

[Sharon Driscoll]

Christopher Shulver (John Dilley) was my great uncle on my mother's side, her name is Irene Thelma Walsh (nee Pyke) the daughter of Frederick and Ann Pyke and one of seven children, five daughters and two sons, mum is the second youngest and in this year 2023 will be 93 in November. This story has been passed down through the family and now I'm passing it down to my grandchildren.
Sharon Driscoll (nee Walsh)

 

[Helen Shulver]

Hi all, I am looking for Sharon driscoll nee walsh and would love to speak to her about Christopher. He is my great great grandfather. She posted on here in June 2023. Thanks Helen

 

[Helen Shulver]

Christopher Shulver (John Dilley) was my great uncle on my mother's side, her name is Irene Thelma Walsh (nee Pyke) the daughter of Frederick and Ann Pyke and one of seven children, five daughters and two sons, mum is the second youngest and in this year 2023 will be 93 in November. This story has been passed down through the family and now I'm passing it down to my grandchildren.
Sharon Driscoll (nee Walsh)

Dear Sharon, I am so pleased I have worked out how to reply. I am Christopher's great great granddaughter and would love to speak to you. My father has the same name and years passed where I had him on the family tree and then all this info was on the Internet and I realised he was a titanic survivor. My grandparents have passed and my father didn't know he was named after him. His father was Joseph, then his Arthur who was son of Christopher. How best could we link up? Thanks Helen