Titanic's Jewelry


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Ash

Guest
I was wondering about all of the jewelry onboard. I was wondering what kind they found and who it belonged to. I would love to know the answer to this question! I would also like to know if they knew what was inside the pursers safe! Thanks, Ashley!
 
Dec 2, 2000
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Easley South Carolina
My understanding was that the pursers safe was cleaned out befor the ship went down. Most of the jewelry would have been that owned by the passangers and I suspect would have been on their persons. Conterary to some modern day mythmaking, the Titanic was no treasure ship.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
 
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Bill DeSena

Guest
Perusal of EBAY produced am auction of a ring that is a fair copy of one recovered from the wreck during salvage (grave robbing) operations.

Michael, I've been keeping an eye on what is offereed for sale on EBAY and see that there are some pricely Olympic artifacts for sale now too.

Regards
Bill
 

Dave Gittins

Member
Apr 11, 2001
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There is a lot of Olympic material around and I would not pay much for it. All the glasses, plates and so on were made by the thousand for White Star and were not peculiar to particular ships. I've seen dozens of wine glasses from Olympic on sale at an exhibition for aorund $100 US each. Caveat emptor!
 
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William Conrad

Guest
The thing that worries me about all this is if their authentic or not! I mean, there's so much interest in the Titanic subject recently, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a factory somewhere belting out $5 at time, 'authentic' Olympic plates for sale to the public at $100 a time! Don't get me wrong, I'm a dedicated Titanic fan. But I feel that the whole subject has become far too commercialised recently! There's just too many people trying to cash in and make a quick profit for my liking...

Not only that, but Titanic Inc make me nervous with their greed. I hear they're selling Titanic coal too! Moral questions aside, how do we know that their coal is really Titanic coal? Can't you just imagine Titanic Inc going down to their local colliery and buying up chunks of coal at $0.50 a time to sell on at $20. When their real supplies run dry, I doubt that anyone at Titanic Inc would object! After all, money and profit is the name of the game, right! Just a cynical thought...

Leave the Titanic alone! There's too much greed and money involved...
 
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Bill DeSena

Guest
Speaking of greed. This item has apparently sold for a high price : cgi ebay com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=401765039

I alerted EBAY and RMS Titanic about the probability of it being stolen and at the very least a violation of the recent Federal Court order not to sell any relics

Regards
Bill
 
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Traci Miller

Guest
There are all kinds of bogus items up for sale. The interest in the movie has just increased the demand.

Unfortunately, a lot of people are unaware and taken in by unscrupulous vendors selling items that couldn't possibly be from Titanic. I saw an "original crystal decanter" that was purported to come from the Titanic on ebay about a week ago. The bid on it was up over $100. Some poor sap will put in a lot of money for a fake item.
 
Dec 2, 2000
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Bill, Dave, others, sorry I've been away for a couple of days, but the phone lines here got mucked up. No phones=no internet access around here where I live. Re Titanic/Olympic items for sale, eBay, as Bill has learned, are apparently indifferent to the fact that they are selling either a fake(Making them accomplices to fraud) or a stolen item if the steel sample is for real(Making them high profile fences) I sincerly hope they answer for it, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it to happen. Dave is right about Caveat Emptor as there is a lot of hucksterism out there. In my first issue of the Titanic Commutator which I received for the spring of this year, there was an artical dealing with obvious commemorative copies of the menu from the First Class restaurant which were being sold as the real thing.

Personally, I'll keep my purchases to books on our favorite subject...as well as hard copies of the inquiry transcripts when I can get them. The hucksters will just have to swindle somebody else.

Strong words, I know, but after 20 years in the Navy, I have no love for theives.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
 
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Joshua Doyle Tift

Guest
How can anyone say that Titanic was no treasure ship. Look at the claims and that will tell you that Titanic was anything but no treasure ship.
 
Dec 2, 2000
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>>Look at the claims and that will tell you that Titanic was anything but no treasure ship.<<

Claims are just that...claims. And just because somebody files such a claim doesn't mean that all of them are true. (I mean really, it's not as if insurance fraud is a 21st Century invention.)
 

Dave Gittins

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Apr 11, 2001
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A funny thing happened after Empress of Ireland went down. Huge claims for lost valuables, supposedly locked in the purser's safe, were made. The claimants probably thought the safe could not be recovered.

However, diving was more advanced than they thought. The safe was recovered and was opened in the presence of many witnesses. The value of the cash and other property found was less than .5% of what was being claimed! A good deal of it belonged to the ship's owners.

Some think that this little comedy may have helped the huge reduction in claims made in the USA Titanic case. These peaked at about $18,000,000 and fell to about $2,500,000. Quite a bit of this amount was for loss of life, so the claims for material loss cannot have been great.
 
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Joshua Doyle Tift

Guest
Dave the Empress of Ireland sank after the Titanic so the Empress of Ireland would not have had anything to do with the Titanic case. Besides people may have sued for life when they were really suing for lost property. Why because the survivers could have covered up the fact that they were suing for property and life but sued under life so not every one would know what they had in case the ship was found later on and treasure hunters would have known what they sued for. If the treasure hunters new what people really had than they would have known what to look for and where to look for it.
 
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Joshua Doyle Tift

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Mr. Standart People cant file a claim and win in court if they cant prove what they had. They either had insurance or records to prove they had something of great value. Besides why lie about it. Those people did not know if the ship would be found quickly or not and if found they did not know if it could be raised. So if they did lie about there claim they took a big chance of the ship being found and there lie being found out. So I don't think they would take that chance of a scandal on such a huge tragedy.So therefor the claims have to be true.Pluse insurance companies may have looked into the claims too. So there again the people were taking a big risk of being caught with fraud.
 

Paul Lee

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Aug 11, 2003
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Joshua, even if they did know where the ship was, and if it would be found quickly, raising it is/was out of the question. They knew in 1912 that it was under 2.5 miles of miles and even today it is a huge engineering feat to get anything to that depth.
 
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>>If the treasure hunters new what people really had than they would have known what to look for and where to look for it.<<

The survivors of that time wouldn't have had to clarify or show discretion toward what they had on board to catch the interests of treasure hunters; the fact alone that Titanic was a large ship and carried many wealthy families would be enough to draw them to the ship and explore...and already has. That was one reason Ballard originally intended to keep the exact coordinates of the wreck site secret. Unfortunately...
 
Jun 12, 2004
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>>Those people did not know if the ship would be found quickly or not and if found they did not know if it could be raised. So if they did lie about there claim they took a big chance of the ship being found and there lie being found out.So I don't think they would take that chance of a scandal on such a huge tragedy. So therefor the claims have to be true.Pluse insurance companies may have looked into the claims too. So there again the people were taking a big risk of being caught with fraud.<<

This is another absolutist remark. How do you know this, Joshua? Where is your support? Can you please provide a source? Thank you.

By the way, it is the business of insurance companies to look into its cases for additional relevant information and for the sake of substantiation, but the WSL had records of everything tagged and carried by the passengers, so there really wouldn't have been an issue of falsification, except in the case of misrecollection. That's not saying that there wouldn't have been a case in which people may have deliberately falsified their claims, only that it wouldn't have been a common thing. The records held by the WSL collectively constitute one source for how we know what certain passengers took on board.


Still, there were itemized lists of registered valuables contained within the pursers' safe, but It's doubtful that any of those lists survived the sinking. As to whether or not WSL had duplicates of these lists, that's uncertain.
 
Dec 2, 2000
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>>Dave the Empress of Ireland sank after the Titanic so the Empress of Ireland would not have had anything to do with the Titanic case.<<

Joshua, I think you missed the point. The point being that when something like this happens, there is no end of people who are not in the least bit reluctant to use the situation to try and line their pockets with lotsa money. It's an old game which neither began nor ended with the Titanic.

>>Mr. Standart People cant file a claim and win in court if they cant prove what they had.<<

So prove that they had all of this and that they had what they all claimed they had on board the ship at the time of her loss. Got manifests? Pursers records and logs?

>>They either had insurance or records to prove they had something of great value.<<

So what? That hardly proves that any of it was on the ship, only that they owned it. The what doesn't always speak to the where and they would have to be able to provide some reasonable evidence of the "where."

>>Besides why lie about it.<<

Because they can and because when the issue becomes the prospect of getting a lot of money back, even saints have been known to turn into sinners.

>> Those people did not know if the ship would be found quickly or not and if found they did not know if it could be raised.<<

Actually, they did. The Titanic's correct position was known to within 13 miles and was known to be water so deep, that even finding the wreck much less any prospect of salvage was known to be a practical impossibility.

>>So I don't think they would take that chance of a scandal on such a huge tragedy.So therefor the claims have to be true.<<

No it doesn't.

The arguement above qualifies as a non sequiter as it assumes that people wouldn't take the chance. Hardly true by any stretch of the imagination. You would be amazed at the "chances" that people would take over a lot less and the simple fact that they were involved in a massive tragedy is in no wise insurance against fraud.

>>If the treasure hunters new what people really had than they would have known what to look for and where to look for it.<<

Oh would they now? Even if any of these putative treasure hunters knew what anybody had that doesn't speak to where they may have left it or when during the course of a day. The Titanic is a very large ship after all and just where do you look in all that mud inside the ship and scattered in the debris field?
 
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Joshua Doyle Tift

Guest
You prove with your sources that what I and other people have read per books written by credible historians,news paper clippings,documentaries and TITANIC INC who own the wreck is not true can your sources prove that. I still don't think they would lie about a claim becouse insurance companies could have hired there own investigators to watch and learn the truth.Can your sources prove the widows were lying in there time of morning. They did not know the ship could be raised. Well it apparently was not too deep for Astor's son to think about raising it. The Titanic is apparently not so big anymore for James Cameron to go through it now is it.
 
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Cornelius Thiessen

Guest
Joshua, I can't speak for the Titanic itself but surely as long as there has been some form of insurance people have made some form of false claims.My dearest friend is an insurance fraud investigator, you would not believe the tales he can tell you. Someones run down shack burns down and suddenly $75,000 worth of antiques went up in smoke with the shack. From hearing my friends tales I have absolutely no doubt that Titanic passengers were above this sort of thing. Of course not all would do that but theres always a few greedy ones that would.
 

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