Historical Inaccuracies to historical characters in the last two Titanic films

Obviously, because A Night to Remember is more of a documentary while James Cameron's Titanic is more of a love story. Well, throwing all this stuff about shooting of passengers, a love story, bribing of the officer etc. will attract more people. James Cameron's motive was not to make an effort to recreate Titanic, but more to draw crowds to the box office.
 
Cameron's Titanic film did win 11 oscars out of 14 oscar nominations but his film did not win an oscar for an important oscar category which is Best Screenplay and screenplay is another word for script.A Night to Remember did not win any oscars and I don't think that A Night to Remember even got any oscar nominations.A Night to Remember did win a Golden Globe for Best English Language Foreign Film.And the popularity of a film is not and should not be a determination of how good a film should be.I will choose the docu-drama style of A Night to Remember over the historically inaccurate and fictitious love story in Cameron's Titanic any day despite the fact that A Night to Remember may not be as popular as Cameron's Titanic
 
Jerry and Jeremy, you both make excellent points, and the bottom line you should keep in mind is that "to each his own." Everyone will of course have their own favorite Titanic movie and for various reasons. It's all purely subjective to state one movie is more accurate or better than another. I love both movies for different reasons and I also have disappointments with both movies for different reasons. But that's okay, too. So is everyone else's opinions of the films, or maybe they prefer another film entirely. And besides which, this subject has been hashed and thrashed in other threads so many times. Let's move on to something else.

Kyrila
 
Jerry, as Kyrila pointed out, it's all a matter of taste. I don't take my measure of a film by how many Oscars or any other award it wins. I've seen a few Oscar winners...like Apocolypse Now...which I found to be so dreary and boring that I walked out of the cinima halfway through. I enjoyed Cameron's Titanic enough that I went back to see it several times and bought a copy when it came out on DVD.

When you get right down to it, whether or not you enjoy it is the only litmus test that matters. If you like it, have fun with it. If not...well...there are other fish in the sea.
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Jeremy,Kyrila and Michael, I do happen to think that Cameron's Titanic is a far better film than the dreadful CBS mini-series Titanic that had Catherine Zeta-Jones in it. Sincerely,Jerry Nuovo
 
"the popularity of a film is not and should not be a determination of how good a film should be..."

Not a "determination" perhaps, but certainly a very strong *indication*. Ask yourself how many "popular" films are considered poor. You'll find these films are usually popular for a reason.

Aside from the love story - admittedly central from the plot - you should find that Titanic '97 is easily comparable to ANTR in terms of historical accuracy.

Ben
 
"Historical accuracy" - Cameron was very particular about the sets and wanted to replicate them as close as possible. Especially the rooms, it looked very realistic.
 
>>You'll find these films are usually popular for a reason.<<

Yep...they're entertaining. That's really about all an audience asks for.
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Granting that the scripting and acting in Cameron's Titanic may not have been the cat's meow for everyone, there are a lot of flicks out there which are far worse by leaps and bounds. But don't take my word for it. Try asking how many people saw and enjoyed Orgazmo!!!! I don't think you'll find many takers for that one, but I could be wrong.
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But Ben when you say that "Aside from the love story-admittedly central from the plot-you should find that Titanic '97 is easily comparable to ANTR in terms of historical accuracy" I have to disagree about just a few of the non Jack and Rose scenes in that movie.Such as First Officer Murdoch shooting down and killing two steerage passengers before turning the gun on himself.I am not convinced that this really happened.Also the scene which had Quartermaster Hitchens and Molly Brown in the lifeboat.We do know that in the actual event Molly Brown does actually take over the lifeboat from Hitchens but in the film Hitchens angrily tells Molly Brown "You just shut that hole in your face" and she just sits there and does nothing.In the film A Night to Remember First Officer Murdoch is not depicted as a trigger happy goon and Molly Brown does take over control of the lifeboat from Hitchens.On a cruise I took on the QE2,I did ask one of the QE2's officers what he thought of Cameron's Titanic.He told me that he saw the film with his wife and that in his opinion he thinks that the film is complete rubbish and agrees with me that ANTR is a better Titanic film. Sincerely,Jerry Nuovo
 
I seem to have inadvertently fuelled this debate, not that it matters if people are enjoying it. When making his film, James Cameron considered all the imponderables surrounding the sinking and decided on including some which added to the dramatic impact of his story - like the Murdoch shooting/suicide theory. Cameron didn't dream this up - it had been discussed for ages. He just decided to use it for dramatic reasons. I think he did a great deal of research, and was meticulous about those things he could be certain of - clothes, style, ship dimensions, some survivors' testimonies etc. I also think he drew very heavily indeed on ANTR, in fact to the point where I think he should have aknowledged it in the credits.

When I responded to Bob, saying that I wasn't sure he was right in supposing that people could separate fact from fiction, I was trying to point out that the obviously fictitious element - Jack and Rose - in an odd way endorsed the historical elements; Smith, Lowe, Murdoch, Lightoller, Molly Brown, Isamy urging Captain Smtih onwards etc.
That's because people trust film directors who dramatize historical events. Like Saving Private Ryan, Apocalypse Now, Braveheart, U-whatever the-number-was etc.
My students did exactly this, but they shouldn't have. They should have understood that films are fiction based on fact and supposition, and been prepared to try to separate the two. But they don't. I don't particularly castigate Cameron for including imponderables in his film. The only thing I really object to, as some people on this board will know, is that he passed his own dreadful drawings off as Jack's 'exquisite work' ..... but I seem fairly alone in finding this just about the limit!
 
Hi Jerry

You wrote: Such as First Officer Murdoch shooting down and killing two steerage passengers before turning the gun on himself.I am not convinced that this really happened.

Nor am I, by any means. Nor am I "convinced" that Captain Smith went down with the ship trapped in his wheelhouse. However, contentious portrayals do not equate to historical inaccuracies. If the true facts of an historical event have never been determined, the director should have the flexibility to use his/her own interpretations. It is only inaccurate if we know for certain that an event is depicted erroneously, or if we're certain that it didn't happen. Controversial - yes, inaccurate - no.

We do know that in the actual event Molly Brown does actually take over the lifeboat from Hitchens but in the film Hitchens angrily tells Molly Brown "You just shut that hole in your face" and she just sits there and does nothing.

No historical inaccuracy here either, I'm afraid. From the moment boat #6 was lowered to well after the ship had gone down, Hitchens was still very much in command. It was not until the Carpathia hove in sight that Molly Brown rebelled against Hitchens' orders. If he had been forced to surrender his command at an earlier stage, boat #6 would undoubtedly have returned to the wreck site to pick up survivors. See the accounts of Peuchen, Candee, and Mrs. Brown herself.

In the film A Night to Remember...Molly Brown does take over control of the lifeboat from Hitchens.

Yeah but that accent! Ouch. If Molly had any been similar to her ANTR portrayal, there may very well have been "one less" in that boat by morning!

I did ask one of the QE2's officers what he thought of Cameron's Titanic...he thinks that the film is complete rubbish.

Which proves what, exactly? Nautical prowess does not make someone an expert film critic. His opinion is no more or less valid than anyone else's.
 
For what it's worth, I understand that Margaret Brown's "rebellion" against Hichens was filmed by Cameron but the scene was one of the many casualties of the overall trimming of the film's length mandated by studio representatives.

Is it possible to discuss what one likes or dislikes about any of the Titanic films without having to resort to derision? I see terms like "rubbish" and "dreadful" as being both subjective and devisive in nature and discouraging of polite debate.

For my part, I like the 1953 Titanic, ANTR, and the 1997 Titanic for various reasons. Each has something that appeals to me. I also find fault with each of those films, but I don't see any need to have them compete against one another for my approval. After all, they're just entertainment, and if I were to get too serious about any one of them...well then, I've just negated their ability to entertain. But, that's just how I see things.

Parks
 
Hi Ben,This particular QE2 Officer did not tell me the reason why he thinks Cameron's Titanic is rubbish.Maybe he did not like the depiction of First Officer Murdoch as a trigger-happy goon and or even of the depiction of Titanic's other officers.You say that "Nautical prowess does not make someone an expert film critic".And as a navigation officer of a ocean liner he does have the right to critisize a film that does have in it the depiction of the first and last voyage of probably what is the most famous ship of all time which is the Titanic.Famous because of the result of a collision with an iceberg she sank in the cold North Atlantic with the tragic loss of over 1,500 lives.It is this sad tragedy that makes the Titanic famous. Sincerely,Jerry Nuovo
 
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