No Excuse for Capt Lord's Inaction

[Augusto Félix Solari]

I think you all should remember that after the collision of the Republic and the Florida, people began to understand the importance of wireless as safety device, so that is no excuse.

However, my curiosity has been aroused: how much could the crew of the Californian see from the Titanic?

If they could see the four funnels they would certainly know that being a major liner, the Titanic would have a 24 hours wireless service.

Despite all this, a last thing must be taken into account: the Californian wireless operator was already told to shut up by Phillips when the latter was too busy sending passengers messeges. So the operator wouldn't be willing to get through with the ill fated ship again.

 

[Samuel Halpern]

>>I simply pointed out what was different about how people might interpret things in those days. <<

Your argument had to do with the interpretation of what "colour" meant to people in those days, if I understand your point. From what you told us, white was not considered a colour. So if some officer is taught "Rockets or shells, throwing stars of any colour or description, fired one at a time, at short intervals" meant distress, were they to assume that colourless white rockets sent up at intervals would not be considered signals of distress? Of course not. The fact that BOT approved socket signals that bursted into white stars as regulation distress signals proves that.

By the way, I believe it was Lightoller that said they go up a couple of hundred feet, not Boxhall. And were you aware that Pitman was partially color blind?

And by the way, I believe you are wrong about white not being considered as a colour in those days. For example, the description for private night signals of the Atlantic Transport Line registered on 20 Oct 1888 says: "Roman candle throwing six balls of the following colours: 1 green, 1 white and 1 red, to be repeated once in the same order." So I guess they actually viewed white as a colour.

Lord's question to Stone about colour is exactly as he explained it. He knew that most company signals had colours in them. He said so. But regardless of colour, I'm sure he also knew that multiple rockets fired at intervals meant distress. What this tells me is that he was told of one rocket being seen when Stone called down to him on the speaking tube. That is supported by Gibson's story as to what Stone told him about calling down to Lord. If that's what happened, then I agree that a single isolated rocket, colors in it or not, would not in itself mean distress. But Stone, the OOW, saw multiple rockets go up at intervals. And he did nothing more about it. And his excuse was that if the master was not concerned, why should I be?

Finally, the issue of what would have happened if Lord did find out that Titanic was in distress is, in my opinion, irrelevant. The issue is Californian's apparent indifference while a steamer was sending up rockets of distress.

 

[Samuel Halpern]

Augusto,

The only thing that could be seen were lights. The hull, funnels, and other parts of a ship's structure were invisible even looking through glasses. Also, the vessel seen from Californian did not present a broadside view, but was mostly end on and presented a foreshortened view.

What Evans was told by Phillips at 11 pm the night before was the typical way that operators talked to each other when one jumped in and interrupted an ongoing communication. It was not a Master Service Gram message from the commander of one vessel to the commander of another. If it were, Phillips would have been obligated to give it priority and have it acknowledged.

 

[Jim Kalafus]

Sam: As a former New Yorker, you might remember the notorious murder of Kitty Genovese. She was the young lady who was stabbed to death, in two separate attacks over a period of about a half hour, while 38 neighbors listened (and in a few cases watched) and no one called the police.
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/kitty_genovese/1.html

To this day, her murder is a sore point in Kew Gardens. Old timers from the neighborhood, and current neighborhood boosters, will tell you that Kitty was "loud" and "boisterous" and "Always screaming in the street." Which may have been true, but which dodges the issue that on THAT morning she was screaming "Oh my god, he just stabbed me" and later, "help" and still later incoherent wailing. Neighbors will tell you that the final attack took place in a stairwell and no one actually SAW it. They will tell you "Even if we HAD called the police sooner, she would still have died." They will ALSO tell you that there was no caller confidentially in 1965, and quite a few people who "got involved" ended up getting whacked once their names were divulged.

In short, the current neighborhood boosters sound like a bunch of Lordites. The 1964 witnesses HAD phones. They heard, and in a few cases SAW her being attacked. They might not have saved her, but the fact is they did not even try.

And, as repulsive as the people of Kew Gardens were on that morning, they were LESS reprehensible than Lord was. Lord was/is the equivalent of a POLICE OFFICER (fictional- there wasnt one) who listened to Kitty's prolonged death and did not run out of the house or at least pick up a telephone. Lord had, if not a legal, at least a MORAL obligation as the head of the ship, to ascertain what the irregular event being reported to him was. He might not have reached the Titanic in time. He might not have reached her by wireless, either. BUT, he did not even try, and all the second guessing and rationalizing in the world cannot alter that. He had a wireless. He had a wireless operator. Something irregular was happening, yet he utilized neither.

He'd have been right at home in Kew Gardens, 1964.

 

[Jim Currie]

Sam,

What individuals decided to make of whether white was a colour or not is up to the individual. - I'm telling you that in my day and in my father's day (Titanic time) school; children were taught that black and white were not colours but neutrals. Colours were the shades derived from the basic primary colours of red, yellow and blue.

As for Pitman, I understand that it was later in life that he developed a degree of colour blindness. In that case, he would be forced to leave the deck department as colour blindness was and still is a no-no for a deck officer. Part of the examinations for BoT certificate was the sight test and the lantern box all of which used red, green and 'neutral' white!
In any case a person who is colour blind still sees colours - they just find it difficult to differentiate one from another.

I again refer you to your own quote:

"7290. Do just think? - Company signals usually have some colours in them."

Why was that question asked? In fact the problem lay with the wording of the regulations - 'rockets of any colour.'

"Finally, the issue of what would have happened if Lord did find out that Titanic was in distress is, in my opinion, irrelevant. The issue is Californian's apparent indifference while a steamer was sending up rockets of distress."

But that is exactly the issue! Lord was condemned on what others perceived he could and should have done but didn't. It is still happening to-day. That's why we have these hysterical arguments about the arch-evil one!

Jim:

You wrote:

"Lord had, if not a legal, at least a MORAL obligation as the head of the ship, to ascertain what the irregular event being reported to him was."

I'm afraid that's not the case. Lord only had these obligations if and when he could not rely on the information being passed to him by the man who he left in charge.

I believe Lord told one lie - the one about Gibson's visit to him just after 2 am. What I do think happened was that Lord received a message from his 2nd. Officer via the Apprentice. Stone was ordered to do just that. Lord heard it clearly, digested what he was told and based his subsequent action on that.
The message was to the effect that the vessel Lord had been asking for information about had finally picked-up and gone off into the night without acknowledging Californian's persistent signalling! I believe Lord based his next action - turning over and going back to sleep on the basis of that message. A perfectly rational thing to do. You and many others are basing your arguments on knowledge that Lord did not have at that time - in fact what both Inquiries did not have at the time. If Lord believed his 2nd. Officer that the other ship had stopped firing rockets and had left the scene - why on earth should he get up and go to see if the man was telling the truth or not? That is a totally unreasonable expectation. It is much like keeping a guard-dog and doing the barking and biting on it's behalf!

Stone saw one rocket then four and told Lord about it. Lord told him to see what was going on and report. Stone never found out what was happening so he had nothing to report that would set the wheels in motion. The one definite thing he had to report was that the rocket firing ship had gone. End of story! In hind sight Lord should have told Stone to call Evans if he still got no reply after a specific time. But then hind sight's a great thing - isn't it?

Regards,

Jim.

 

[Samuel Halpern]

I'm not a Pitman expert, but I believe he transferred to the Purser's office with WSL within a year of Titanic because of poor eyesight. But I'll let others who know more about him speak about his failing eyesight and colour blindness. Recall it was Pitman who said that he thought that so called mystery light was a just a lamp in another lifeboat when he saw it.

But you say there was a problem in the wording of the regulations referring to rockets of any colour. Now just what problem is there? Does that wording mean that colours were to be expected in distress signals? I don't think so. The wording was there to take colour out of the equation so to speak. Rockets fired at intervals meant distress. They could be white, red, blue, or anything. It doesn't matter according to the regs in those days.

Now you can also ask what does "short intervals" mean? They didn't specify how short is "short," though I've seen people try to argue that they should have sent them up every minute, and because they didn't, Stone didn't think they were signals of distress. So I guess we should blame Capt. Smith for telling Rowe to fire them about every five minutes, way too long, or better yet, blame the writers of the regs for not specifying how short a short interval was to be.

I think the current regs say: "shells, rockets or flares which send up red stars and are fired one at a time at fairly short intervals." I guess they still haven't learned that "fairly short" is a very subjective term, and they should be more specific than that. Don't you agree?

>>Stone saw one rocket then four and told Lord about it.<<

Do you think he told Lord he saw 4 or 5 rockets, or just one? It makes a huge difference in my book. If Stone told Lord about seeing one rocket as Lord claimed, then Stone was lying in what he wrote to Lord on the 18th and what he testified to. However, if Stone wasn't lying about that, then Lord was lying when he said he was told about one. Either way, it just doesn't look very good.

 

[Donald R. Schneider]

Jim Currie,

There is no need to be dramatic or hyperbolic. I can’t, of course, speak for anyone else, but I for one have never thought of Captain Lord as evil or craven. What I have always thought is that the man had a very bad day.

I’m 55 years old now and if someone were to ask me what lessons I have learned from life, I would answer that the one lesson I have learned with absolute certainty is that one should never think of one’s self as unique. Many people share common reactions to common experiences. On a few occasions in my life, I have had a flash of instinct while stumbling over a situation where I sensed something might be amiss and have briefly thought to myself: “Maybe I should check it out.” I failed to do so because it was easier not to and for fear of looking foolish if it turned out to be my imagination. The odds were great that I was wrong. Therefore, I quickly put the situations out of my mind and metaphorically rolled over in bed just as Captain Lord had done that fateful night. As with Lord (as I have no doubt), on a few such occasions I wish I hadn’t.

Lord was dead tired and fatigue can certainly weigh upon a person’s judgment. I forget what member of his crew stated such, but someone said that after Lord received the news the next morning about the Titanic he “seemed to age twenty years all at once.” I have no doubt of it from my experience reading human nature. After having had some sleep, his mind was now more alert. It all fell into place for him in one terrible flash of insight and he realized the ramifications for himself. His mental wheels started turning and the cover-up attempt commenced. I will be honest. That would have been exactly my own reaction. I won’t play holier-than-thou.

One of the reasons why Phillips was annoyed at Evans’s ice warning message was that it was so loud, it sounded like the sender was right on top of the Titanic. They were that close together. Dave Nitzer, on his website that totally demolishes the Lordites pathetic grasping at straws claims in defense of Captain Lord, concludes the same as did Lord Mersey. I believe that Captain Lord could have gotten underway by as early as 1:30 AM. (and should have been able to earlier had Stone acted more alertly in reporting to his captain) and could have arrived at the scene very close to the time the Titanic sunk. If so, what could he have accomplished beyond rescuing those alive in the lifeboats far earlier than the Carpathia? That is a question that will forever be left unanswered.

Had he been of the same mettle as Captain Rostron and had his crew been as well trained and had been prepared to execute his every order with ballet-like precision as had Rostron’s; had his boats been prepared to launch the moment they arrived, then just maybe at least a few of the more hardy souls in the water might have been fished out alive. To quote from Schindler’s List and the Talmud: “He who saves a single life saves the world entire.”

If they had had the chance to save just one person, then the effort would have been not just justified but morally mandated. That effort was never made for want of Stanley Lord not immediately rushing to the deck and issuing the simple order to wake up Evans promptly upon the first report of rockets having been fired. If he risked error, then he had the obligation to error on the side of caution.

After he was most fortunate to have recovered his career, his record was impeccable. I’m certain the incident haunted him ever afterward and am equally certain he privately learned from it, despite chattering himself (to use a Southern U.S. expression) into believing he had not acted negligently that fateful morning and had nothing to apologize for. It was simply too big for him to ever accept.



.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>So how can you say, "That's just the way it was?" I suggest that what you are saying is just your view of how things were seeing it through the lens of your own understanding.<<

What I'm going by is what the principles involved said in their own testimony and in that testimony, the factors which stand out is that attitudes towards radio were decidely mixed. There was an understanding of it's potential, but not everybody was on the same page on it's utility. Captain Rostron certainly understood it but Captain Lord appears to have been out to lunch on the matter and his two men didn't even think about it. Worse, nobody was even on the same page regarding it's use and control. It was an unregulated medium and a free-for-all until the governments of the time decided to get involved and take steps to clean up the mess.

>>If they had had the chance to save just one person, then the effort would have been not just justified but morally mandated.<<

Donald, I don't think you'll find a lot of people who will dispute that. I certainly won't...and let's be clear about one singular fact: Captain Lord & Company screwed up. BIG Time! I'm not about the defend his mistakes or the mistakes and the weak kneed response, or rather non-response, of the two dimwits who had the watch.

What I won't do is be an activist about it. A century after the fact, it's a little late to get upset about events that are a done and unalterable deal. What I will do is try to use the sources I have...the inquiry transcripts, testimony and affidavits are still the most useful...to try and see and understand it as they would have.

The problem here with the radio, from a purely practical standpoint would have been the potential for confusion it could have generated. Communications with the Titanic would have got them Boxhall's position. A position we now know to be wrong.

So where do you go and who do you trust?

The rockets you see (You know something is going on there!) or the position report given by the navigation officer of one of the North Atlantic's prestigious crack express liners?

In an age where that sort of status was reckoned for counting for a lot...and I do mean a LOT...that would be an awkward problem.

I'd like to think they would have figured it out, but would it have been soon enough to save some of the people who would have been swimming in the water by the time Californian could have arrived?

 

[Samuel Halpern]

>>The problem here with the radio, from a purely practical standpoint would have been the potential for confusion it could have generated. Communications with the Titanic would have got them Boxhall's position. A position we now know to be wrong. <<

That certainly would have been an interesting dilemma to face. You think you are at some position based on dead reckoning, and the SOS is another position based on someone else's dead reckoning work. Your course to the SOS position will take you across a field of pack ice in the dark of night, but a course to where the rockets were seen would take you on a course along the edge of the field as far as you can tell. The difference in directions was large enough that some sort of confirmation would be nice to have before starting off. Since Titanic was firing rockets, and Californian was seeing rockets, if I were Lord I would tell my operator to ask Titanic to fire two rockets in quick succession for visual verification before heading toward her.

Californian kept steam up all night, so getting underway would not have been too difficult. Unfortunately, under best scenario possible, the best she would be able to do is to begin to get her boats launched as Titanic was breaking apart. And it would be difficult finding people in the water in the dark.

But Lord would have become a hero, just like Rostron.

 

[Jim Currie]

Scotland 15..England 15... A very satisfactory score! Anyway! to continue with more mundane things..........

Sam: a 'Short interval' relative to the firing of a distress signals is governed by the existing circumstances. The reason why they do not specify a particular fixed period (as with sound signals etc) is because every distress situation is different and involves different numbers of individuals with varying levels of training - from the first time amateur yachtsman to the Titanic!
The problem with the existing regulations in 1912 is very well illustrated by the subject we're discussing - it was open to interpretation - not a good idea when you want to convey one thing and one thing only! That why the thick heads of the day eventually came up with the red distress signal!

Actually. in 1959, the Distress Signals were contained within Rule 31. The particular bit of interest to us was subsection (c) Rockets or shells (note shells don't show trails) throwing red stars fired one at a time at short intervals.

In fact, the signals used in 1912 incorporated part (a) of these regulations... 'A gun or other explosive signal fired at intervals of about one minute'. (the sound bit I mean). I'm sure Michael or any other seafarer out there can vouch for the fact that such a sound can be heard one hell of a long way off on a still night!

I have no idea what Stone told Lord about how many rockets he saw! What I do know for absolute certain ( I know this sounds like an excuse but it's true) is that when you use one of those voice tubes, it is in no way the same as talking face to face. If you don't believe me, rig one up and try it yourself. However, before you do so - make sure you have been without sleep for a a long time - have been asleep for about an hour before you are asked to make a clear decision about what you are hearing!

Donald,

I must admit my education did not come up to understanding 'hyperbolic'. I had to look it up and found it meant 'dramatic'. However you are absolutely right - Lord did have a 'bad day' but that particular day was , as they say, the first day of the rest of his life. Fortunately, he was a very stable, down to earth person. After he got over the indignation of having been pilloried by all and sundry and losing his job because of the prejudice of one influential individual he did, as you point out, carry on with his very successful life. It wasn't until someone decided to stir the mud on the bottom of the pool that his life, once more became uncomfortable. If the stirring had been done for a righteous reason I would find no fault with it. However a successful book and movie rights changed that. It ended with Lord having once again to defend his actions and name, 40 years after the event.. how despicable can that be? Not only that, to compound the felony; we have people vilifying the man's name to this day - years after he went to his grave.

Michael:

you wrote:

"Donald, I don't think you'll find a lot of people who will dispute that. I certainly won't...and let's be clear about one singular fact: Captain Lord & Company screwed up. BIG Time! I'm not about the defend his mistakes or the mistakes and the weak kneed response, or rather non-response, of the two dimwits who had the watch."

I'm afraid you fall into the category of being 'hyperbolic' with that observation!

The rest of what you wrote I agree with 100%.

regards to all,

Jim.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>I'm afraid you fall into the category of being 'hyperbolic' with that observation!<<

That much is a matter of highly subjective opinion rather then fact. Some would agree with you and some won't.(Shrug)

 

[Adam Went]

There is definitely no excuse for Captain Lord or the officers on duty on the Californian. It was almost like they were in some sort of daze...."I wonder what a ship like that would be firing rockets at night for?" Pfft....were they all really that stupid? Did none of them know what a distress signal looked like? Did nobody think to wake Cyril Evans simply to ask the ship what the problem was?

If it wasn't so disasterous, it would be a comedy of errors....but here's another thought....

What does everyone think about the possibility of the stricken Titanic herself sailing for the Californian after hitting the iceberg? No doubt it would have hastened the sinking and made launching lifeboats near impossible, but if she had immediately sailed full steam for the Californian, surely she would have got close enough for the dazed officers on the Californian to see how serious the problem was and go to her assistance? A meeting half-way, perhaps?

Just thinking out loud....

 

[Jim Currie]

Good thinking Adam!


You might also ask why one of the world's most highly qualified commanders and his highly qualified crew thought there was time enough to row a laden, heavy, wooden, undermanned boat across to a what they thought was a nearby ship - discharge their passengers then row back for more?

Your idea is not as improbable as it may sound to the 'experts'. Unfortunately we do not have full details of Titanic's overall condition after impact. The man who could have told us that went down with her.

We know they got rid of lots of steam and put out fires too soon after impact.
For some weird reason - although the crow's nest was manned for the first hour after impact - the lookouts never saw this mystery vessel. The second Officer saw it half an hour after impact - by that time it was too late to use the engines- the boilers were being powered down. If they had had enough steam, it would have been perfectly feasible for them to have shut the forward WT doors and gone dead slow astern toward the light in question. There would have been other critical considerations but there were enough brains on the bridge to have dealt with them.

What I find curious is the assumption by many that those marine experts who were advising the Inquiry members had not already thought of all the wonderful eureka! revelations that have surfaced since the film ANTR burst on the unsuspecting world? After all, these people ate, slept and dreamed all things marine. Most of them would have been in the business since they were 12 years old.

As for Californian's officers..
Your observations indicate to me that you are, like many others, making assumptions based on lack of knowledge. That's nothing to be ashamed of! you will never be lonely!

Keep up the posts!

Jim

 

[Jim Currie]

Good thinking Adam!


You might also ask why one of the world's most highly qualified commanders and his highly qualified crew thought there was time enough to row a laden, heavy, wooden, undermanned boat across to a what they thought was a nearby ship - discharge their passengers then row back for more?

Your idea is not as improbable as it may sound to the 'experts'. Unfortunately we do not have full details of Titanic's overall condition after impact. The man who could have told us that went down with her.

We know they got rid of lots of steam and put out fires too soon after impact.
For some weird reason - although the crow's nest was manned for the first hour after impact - the lookouts never saw this mystery vessel. The second Officer saw it half an hour after impact - by that time it was too late to use the engines- the boilers were being powered down. If they had had enough steam, it would have been perfectly feasible for them to have shut the forward WT doors and gone dead slow astern toward the light in question. There would have been other critical considerations but there were enough brains on the bridge to have dealt with them.

What I find curious is the assumption by many that those marine experts who were advising the Inquiry members had not already thought of all the wonderful eureka! revelations that have surfaced since the film ANTR burst on the unsuspecting world? After all, these people ate, slept and dreamed all things marine. Most of them would have been in the business since they were 12 years old.

As for Californian's officers..
Your observations indicate to me that you are, like many others, making assumptions based on lack of knowledge. That's nothing to be ashamed of! you will never be lonely!

Keep up the posts!

Jim

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>What does everyone think about the possibility of the stricken Titanic herself sailing for the Californian after hitting the iceberg?<<

The problem with this is that while the Titanic's officers didn't know the exact condition of the ship, they knew full well that the flooding was out of control and couldn't be contained for very long. By midnight, Thomas Andrews had crunched the numbers and he know that at best, the ship had an hour and a half...maybe two hours to live. That she survived beyond that estimate may well be due to some very creative damage control efforts to stem the tide so to speak.

Be that as it may, when time was short, Captain Smith took the correct action in that he ordered the evacuation of the ship.